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Maytag A412 spins, but now shocks


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18 replies to this topic

#1 ryan_975

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 12:33 PM

I orignally posted the following in Maytag A412 spin issues:

[line]
OK,  I have a really SERIOUS new problem with this washer. I washed a load of clothes earlier. It did fine got them all good clean.  I took them out and put them in the dryer. All was good.  I went back to the washer to start another load.  Pushed the dial in turned it back to the start of the cycle. When I pulled the dial out, I felt a little buzz. I didn't notice it at first. I went over to check the temperature settings. I put my fingers on the top of the console and felt a nice big ZAP.  I nealy punched myself trying to get away.  I IMMEDIATELY unplugged the washer. I took the console off and looked for broken wire, or bent terminals that would contact the casing. I didn't find anything. I wanted to use my multimeter to test for continuity between the case and the wires, but I can't find it.  I took the front off and check the wires going to the motor and valve body,  everything looks fine there too.  This has never happened in the too years I've owned the washer.. I'm stumped until I can get my multimeter found.  any Ideas?

 Regards
Ryan Hennessee
 
[line]

since this was orignally posted, I've found a light blue wire that runs to the motor that has a small nick in it where is lies on the bottom of the washer case. It the only wire that I can reach that I've foudn to be damaged. What does this wire do? Is it powered during the fill cycle? The wiring diagram for this washer is LONG gone.  So if someone can find one for me I'd be willing to buy a beer for them.

Regard
Ryan


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#2 Lurker_BrokenArrow_*

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 03:26 PM

I am guessing here, but what color are the wire coming from the mixing valve. If I'm correct there is a blue wire(s) runningup to the water temp selector on the console. Let me know if this helps, I like to learn as much as I can. Sincerely, BrokenArrow

#3 ryan_975

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 11:46 PM

The wires running to the valve are White / Green, Blue / Black, and Orange / Black. The wires running to the motor are: Black, Red, Yellow, Light Blue. It's this Light Blue one that has the nick in it.  I originally thought that this nick would be laying on the bottom of the washer when the harness was in it's normal place. It is not.  Instead the nick is in part of the wire that goes up to the motor, so there fore does not touch anything. What all circuits are live when the washer is in Fill mode? Anybody have a wiring diagram for this old washer? I can't seem to find one on the internet.

Ryan


#4 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 02:01 AM

AGGGGGGG... Had a whole post made, attached the picture and it was to big and came back but complete post is gone.... AGGGGG I hate this forum software......


So here's just the wiring diagram. It's for a one speed Maytag machine of your vintage. Has same color markings for water inlet and motor so this should help you.

In fill all power to motor wires, including the blue (which is for the start windings), are energized with 110volts but have no return path to neutral until the water level switch is satisfied. If any of these wires are rubbed thru and touching the washer anywhere you would get the shock.

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William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
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#5 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 04:05 AM

[user=36]Budget Appliance Repair[/user] wrote:

AGGGGGGG... Had a whole post made, attached the picture and it was to big and came back but complete post is gone.... AGGGGG I hate this forum software......

 

I've had that happen to me before, I know it sucks.  One work around is to post images using the image button (or BBcode in your case) rather than attachments.  I've increased attachment sizes to 275K.  Images don't need to be larger than this for clear viewing and should be scaled down. 

And don't forget:  you're still a member of the old Appliantology Group and you have 3 MB of personal image storage there.  So that's always an option.

Another trick I do when I'm composing a long post is I compose it in Notepad and then cut n' paste it into the forum post editor window. 

Hope this helps.


#6 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 01:36 AM

Ya, I know, just need to remember to do a copy to clipboard of my post before clicking send/preview if I'm doing an attachment. Then if for some reason it doesn't like it I don't have to try and remember what I just wrote to retype it all again.
William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#7 ryan_975

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 05:04 PM

Ok,  found my multimeter under the couch.  Set it on VAC and pulled the dial on the washer with it on fill. I checked between each leg on the power cord. 
0.00 V between hot and common.
9.1 mV between  hot - ground (odd?)
9.1 mV common - ground.  (odd?)

Then I checked continuity between the three legs on the cord.  Open loop on all.

Then I check between all of the terminals on the console and chassis ground. No continuity on any point. 

Check the continuity between the ground leg on the cord and the chassis ground (three in all) and got the beep.

 I checked the lid switch's terminals and at first it read Open Loop.  I pulled the wires off and replaced them and it registered. 

The I set my meter back on VAC and quadruplechecked voltages at the outlet.
122.4 V between Hot and Common
  40.0 V between Hot and Ground.
  39.8 V between Common and Ground.

Shouldn't it be:
~120 V between Hot and Common
~120 V between Hot and Ground and
       0 V between Common and Ground.

So being that there was 40 V on the ground conductor be the reason why I got shocked? And if that's so why wouldn't I have gotten shocked before? And also woudn't it have shocked me when I touched the dial and not until after I pulled it?  I'm seriously at a loss. 


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#8 kdog

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 08:34 PM

sounds like a "floating neutral" within your electrical box,have a licensed electrician check your breaker box.
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#9 ryan_975

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 08:41 PM

I went and rechecked the voltages a little while after making my last reply.  They were different.
121.7 V Hot - Neutral
  55.6 V Hot-Ground
  10.1 V Neutral - Ground

Is this why I got shocked?  Between the time I washed one load and a the next ground potential had changed? But that still doesn't answer the question of why it didn't shocked when I touched it but after I switched it on.  I'll call the electrician tomorrow. Thanks

Ryan

PS I only double checked this time.


#10 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 05:41 AM

Substantially the same results with the identical conclusion: floating neutral.  Probably a bad connection or a mouse-chewed wire somewhere. 

#11 ryan_975

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 07:57 AM

I pulled the plug out of the wall to check the connections on the plug itself.  When I did I found that there is no equipment grounding  conductor.  How in the world am I getting a voltage reading on ground? Damned cheap Radio Shack DVOM. Guess I need to shell out the bucks for a good low impedance meter or an analog one. Check all the neutrals (common),  no loose conections. and check voltages between L1 and Neutral, L2 and Neutral, and L1 and L2.  All were where they're supposed to be, so no floating neutral.  Only conclusion,  a wire is making contact with the chassis.  Maybe inside the motor.  I don't know.

#12 ryan_975

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:01 PM

Still having problems with this.  Can't find a short ANYwhere. I've checked and checked and checked and checked every single wire,  no breaks except for the one I've already mentioned (already fixed it) .  Motor seems fine from what I can check.  I reeeally can't afford a new washer at the moment.  Plus from the what I've been hearing of these new machines -  I don't want a new washer. 

 If I understand the nature of the third prong on an outlet It's only supposed to carry away current in the case of a ground fault within the machine - right?  I plugged it back in tonight (really needed to wash clothes) And put my voltmeter (VAC) between the top of the washer and the back of my dryer (it was the only stainless steel spot that It connected to neutral) and it read 53.4 volts.  unplugged the washer and it read a negligable voltage.  So for now and wearing thck soled shoes, and rubber gloves.And unplugging it to load and unload it.  Somebody please help.  Does a washer actually use the EGC of an outlet (which is against NEC rules)?

Ryan


#13 kdog

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:24 PM

so you have a floaing neutral and a false ground, you need to rewire the outlet and provide aproper ground,if nothing else,for safety sake.
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#14 ryan_975

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 08:34 PM

I had my electrician come out and check the wiring,  all the wiring is good in the house.  He said that were no loose or floating neutrals.  And yes I know I need to put a ground on the plug.  BUT,  if I do that then the washer would be shorting to ground, and it won't solve the problem that is causing voltage to appear on the chassis to begin with.  That problem may become worse and I might cause more problemS. So I need to get this fixed. 

Ryan

By the way,   the house is a rental, so the electrician has to come out and check for problems if I call and report them,  but he doesn't have to check appliances that we own (washer and dryer). For him to do that, we have to pay him.  Living on a student's income is hard enough if you know what I mean.


#15 kdog

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:05 PM

o.k. so here's the deal- if you had a proper ground YOU would not get a shock,that is the very essence of a ground- if the washer wires are allo good as you say they are,then what is the problem?? measure with an ohmeter between the power cord and ground- if there is a cicuit,theres a problem-its that simple-as for not providing a proper safety ground,it is NOT optional,because you can't afford nice clothes,doesn't mean you can walk around without any!!  don't ask us anymore questions until you can at least have the "courtesy" to provide the basic power requirements.
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#16 exsearsguy

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:25 PM

Ryan,maybe you can try getting an extension cord and plugging it into an outlet that isn't on the same circuit (be sure of this) and check and see if your problem is affected.If not, it's probably in your machine. If it changes,it's probably in your electrical circuit. At least you'll have a clue where the problem lies.

#17 exsearsguy

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:25 PM

Ryan,maybe you can try getting an extension cord and plugging it into an outlet that isn't on the same circuit (be sure of this) and check and see if your problem is affected.If not, it's probably in your machine. If it changes,it's probably in your electrical circuit. At least you'll have a clue where the problem lies.

#18 ryan_975

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:27 PM

I've got the guy coming out tomorrow to put a proper ground on the thing tomorrow.  So that's taken care of.  In fact I called him first thing Monday,  I'm not that much of an idiot hick to realize the necessity of a properly grounded appliance.  

 I am typically very well able to diagnose problems with just about anything: cars; lawn equipment; computers,my specialty in fact; appliances, somewhat; Nuclear reactors, wel no but you see my point.  I am almost as able to repair the problems myself. But it's the  problems like this these evade every one of my abilities to diagnose it that give drives me nuts. 

 I was hoping someone on this forum (who has far more experience than this 24 year old undergraduate college student) would be able to help me out. I've tried to follow what you suggested.  You said check damper pads, so I did. Said check the brake, I did. It turned out to be the belt on that one. You said I had a floating neutral, so I called my electrician out here and he checked for me and all is good. You said grounding is not an option, I know that,  I've had a house burned down because of faulty wiring that the landlord wouldn't fix (not the same landlord i have now).  So do me the courtesy of not assuming that I'm an idiot, and trying to get around having to properly wire appliances up. Thanks

My last question was (rephrased): Does a washer actually utilize the safety ground during operation? Or is there a problem that having had a properly grounded recepticel would have masked?

Ryan

 


#19 ryan_975

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:34 PM

Ok,  exsearsguy,  will try that tomorrow.  Your post came in while I was clicking send on my last one. Thanks

Ryan





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