Kenmore Elite 665-16582200

[difs]

Hi all,

Well, this really is just about my dishwasher, but I do have a 19 year old son whose room at college fits the description equally well

We have a Kenmore (Whirlpool) Ultra Quiet Elite dishwasher that leaves said gookus on my glassware and hasn't been getting flatware clean either.  So far, I've done the following:

1) Turned up the water temp a few degrees

2) Checked for fill level - it's perfect, right at heating element

3) Checked for kinks in hoses.  Fine there

4) Wobbled float just to make sure it moved easily.  It does

5) Replaced heating element and control panel (a Sears tech did this last month)

6) Added Glass Magic/Jet Dry 

7) Tried running load with vinegar

8) Checked chopper and check valve.  Replaced check valve last night; chopper appeared fine - no extraneous matter I could find

9) Checked spray arms for clogs - nothing going on there

10) Replaced gaskets

The only thing I haven't done is replaced the upper spray arm, which I believe had been remanufactured since I purchased the machine.  As soon as it arrives in the mail, I'll install.

I can't think of anything else at this point, but my glasses are cloudy and the dishes are just not sparkling clean like they used to be.  I'm getting to the point of replacing the whole darn thing because I'm running out of ideas.

Thoughts or advice appreciated.

Diane

 

 

 

 

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Excellent summary of the problem and what you've done! I wish all the posts where as easy to follow as yours. Nice work.

Check the pumpout between cycles. After the dishwasher pumps out and before it starts letting water into the basin again, open the door and see how much water is left. If it's still visible, Houston, we have a situation.

[difs]

Hi Samurai,

I want to do as you ask, but not sure at what point to open the door and check.  Can you give me an idea of what to listen for, or how long into the cycle I can expect the pumpout to occur?

Thanks,

Diane

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

If your dishwasher drains into your disposal, you can watch the discharge stream from the disposal opening. When water stops being pumped in, open the door to the dishwasher and check the water level.

[difs]

I will run another load and check that.  One thing I have noticed is there's soap residue (white and fairly heavy) on the entire bottom of the tub.  Think this is related to/a symptom of the problem?

[Keinokuorma]

I'm afraid so... you apparently have very hard water, or need to get different detergent. Powdered concentrates are ultimately the best. Bet your DW doesn't have its own softener... you could get an electrolytic demineralizer or resin based softener to hook up to the water intake line.

To get all the stuff out, you may need to use some specialized dishwasher cleaning agent... if vinegar didn't do the trick, you can try citric acid... put half a decilitre of those crystals in and run an empty hot cycle without detergent, repeat if necessary... should dislodge most of it if not all. Vinegar is volatile, so it won't remain in a high concentration.

[difs]

Happy Thanksgiving,

Hey, I got out of having turkey day at my house, pleading a bum dishwasher!  Knew there was an upside to this somewhere...

Ok, I checked the pump out and it's fine - emptied out completely.

Does Home Depot sell citric acid?

Diane

 

[Keinokuorma]

Back here we get raw citric acid from the apothecary...

[bigger hammer]

you can try phoning around and look for a "descaling" product

people on well water and have treatment systems use things like that

also maybe restaurant chemical suppliers/janitor warehouse outlet may carry a product as they are used to clean coffee makers and commercial dishwashers

now noticing your comment  "dishes are just not sparkling clean like they used to be" perhaps you have a problem with the detergent dispenser. it has 2 jobs one to open the flap releasing the soap and two releasing the rinse aid.

[difs]

Hi Hammer,

I was told by the Sears tech to put the detergent in the bottom of the tub, not in the dispenser.  And I don't think the spotting agent is dispensing because I haven't had to fill it in a long time.  Is this a big fix?

[bigger hammer]

i dont know why sears would make that comment.....a universal setup with dishwashers is 2 compartments for detergent. the first one is used on the first fill(prewash) and then 2-3 fills later the door opens to give it a second shot....hence some sort of compartment with a shutter/flap/door etc.

havent had to refill the rinse-aid fluid? how long? this unit holds maybe 2-3 ounces and used 4-5 drops per cycle.....usually that means refilling once every couple of months. i also believe this unit has a dial to increase the amount of rinse-aid released. i'd suggest cranking it up to max.

if the detergent dispenser needs replacing its not that hard. take the front door panel off, then 6 screws and a couple of tabs hold the dispenser in.

[bigger hammer]

i hope i did this right......not really savvy with passing on the links. this is the detergent dispenser in your dishwasher

 

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=1018780

[AccApp]

Try this part link instead.

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=1018780

They are the same part but this way the forum gets the referral bonus.

[difs]

Hi friends and Samurais,

Thought you were rid of me and my dirty ways, but nooooooo...

I agreeably purchased a new soap dispenser through the forum link from RepairClinic.com (huge spiff check coming, I'm sure).  Now I have no idea how to install it.  Do I have to remove the dishwasher door?  Praying I don't.

Thanks in advance,

Di

 

 

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Piece of pie! You'll need a torx driver (local hardware store) to remove the screws holding the door panel on-- access them from the inside of the door, open the door, you'll see them.

This diagram shows you how things go together; your dispenser is item 8: http://tinyurl.com/y4qstx

Remove the obvious screws and wires, carefully noting which wires go where, remove old dispenser, install new one, re-assemble and enjoy the fruits of your labor with a fresh Tuckerman's Pale Ale.

[harryf]

why was control and heater replaced?? did you have fault lights?? was this in response to poor washabilty?? if so; hope you didn' have to pay. you may have hard water or your glasses may be etched but it sounds like the lower/ upper spray arms aren't turning or not forcefully enough. this can be caused by a few different things. i would call a local service co. before you throw more money at it. this d/w is not that complicated and a good tech should be able to tell what's wrong .

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=6511]Jacques[/user] wrote:

why was control and heater replaced??

Jacques, I think you may have posted this in the wrong topic-- she didn't replace the heater and control. We're talking about replacing the dispenser.

[harryf]

#5 of her org. post.  sears did the repair. i think she's in over her head.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Ah, yes, the previous work done by Sears. Based on the other advice she's gotten from Sears (RE: put detergent in the basin, not in the dispenser), I wouldn't be surprised if that was just a parts-changing exercise-- there was probably nothing wrong with the motor-pump assembly to begin with.

Over her head? C'mon, man, that's why she's here! She has us to guide her through it. Besides, what's her alternative, call Sears again? :jason:

[difs]

Konichi wa Samurai, and Bon Soir Jacques!

Well, the Gloria Steinhem in me came out when mon ami Jacques said this little lady was in over her head!  I just HAD to install that dispenser if it was the last thing I did!!!

Outside of removing 4 unnecessary screws (on top, where the controls are) I took off the door panel properly, unplugged the connections to the dispenser and took out all the small screws.  I popped on the new dispenser, replaced all the hardware, put the door panel back on and - VOILA - the new dispenser actually opens now during the wash cycle. Three cheers for the DIY chick!

Now then, after a new spray arm, a new dispenser, several wash cycles with citric acid, checking the float, water level, water temp I seem to have decent improvement in washing performance.  Not perfect - not as good as the day it was installed, still getting cloudiness on glasses and all - but better.  I've been toying with the idea of getting a water softener system, but I hate that soapy, filmy, gummy feeling after taking a shower.  Are there any softeners that run only on the line to the dishwasher?  Or is that a stupid idea?

Thanks again for all your help thus far,

Di

 

 

 

 

 

[Keinokuorma]

A low capacity softener could be used on the dishwasher only... don't need to get a high capacity unit to supply the whole house, although you might consider that to increase the life of the boiler and the clothes washer... and the mixer valve and spray head on the shower... almost anything that deals with water. These collect similar junk too, and that stuff also accumulates to the bathroom walls and floor with the shower soap. Are you on your own well or a shared one, or municipal water service?  

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=14227]difs[/user] wrote:

  I've been toying with the idea of getting a water softener system, but I hate that soapy, filmy, gummy feeling after taking a shower.

Toy thou not, my fair apprentice! You can easily and inexpensively test your water to see if really is too hard. Your hardware store may carry a hardness testing kit. If not, use this one: http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=347204

And to help you make sense of water hardness, what it is, what it is *not*, read this article: http://fixitnow.com/wp/2003/02/13/appliance-tip-of-the-day-the-hard-facts-about-hard-water/

[difs]

Hi all,

Merry post-Christmas and Happy New Year!

Good news to report, thanks to everyone.  I made all the prescribed changed (save for testing my water, which I'll do) and am getting much, much better performance out of the dishwasher.  I ran an empty cycle with citric acid, which helped, and have been using Glass Magic.

One other thing I learned is that the phosphate percentage is different in detergents.  You probably knew this, but I didn't realize the liquids are much lower in phsophates than the powders or cubes.  In my situation, I definitely need a higher percent to wash the dishes well.

Samurai, you recommended a dish detergent that you sell.  Can you send a link?  I will try it.

Thanks again for all your help.  I'm sure there'll be another appliance conundrum on the horizon...

Di