20 replies to this topic

[jeff lee]

Kenmore fridge (and fridge only), model # 253.60721008, aka Gibson, aka Frigidaire, purchased new 2/04, with a maintenance agreement for $550 plus maint. plan $183 (thank God that was bought), total of $764 or so.
Trouble free till 10/06
First repair 10/06-Not cooling properly, tech arives to look at it 3 days after service call made, deduces unit needs major sealed system repairs, parts had to be ordered, unit down for a week or so. Unit back in service last week of October.
Second repair 11/06-Again unit not cooling, tech arrives (same person) 2 days after service call, finds contamination within sealed system, again parts have to be ordered, unit down for another week. Back in service 3rd. week of Nov., just in time for Thanksgiving.......Praise the Lord!
Third repair12/06-Not cooling properly tech arrives (same person again, by now you would think by now he is tired of seeing me and this blasted fridge) 3 days after service call says that this time he is going to replace every component in the sealed system, unit down for yet another week, finally back in service 12/11/06
Here we are today, Tuesday 12/19/06,and, you guessed it, stupid thing blowing tepid if not warm air!!
On the phone with Sears repair center again ( the number is in my phones speed dial list), and a helpful but clueless person instructs me to unplug the unit then plug it back in, this in an effort to "reset the electronics". I politely inform this person that there are no "electronics" involved with this refrig. system, but do as she says anyway......to no avail, of course. Is it me or what?, in my vocabulary electronics involves diodes, resistors, transistors, IC's etc??
Second brainstorm from this person is to check the air door setting so insure that the fridge compt. is getting enough cold air and that the freezer is not hogging it all.......hello?, this unit is a fridge only madam!
Now these Einsteins are telling me that I DO NOT have an maintenance agreement with this p.o.s. and that their service records only go back to the last appointment!
Does anyone want a Sears fridge that they could practice an exorcism on??

[AccApp]

I hope you're getting receipts and keeping them for the work done. This unit was made in the Electrolux Major Appliances freezer plant in White Cloud, MN. Normally when a Frigidaire, Gibson, etc unit needs three sealed system repairs they replace it. If a unit like this is truly getting contamination in it's sealed system there is almost no way to be certain the contamination is gone due to it's concealed/integral condenser. Even if the condenser/yoder loop was being flushed with rx11 and purged with argon/nitrogen I would not trust it. Call them at 800-fri-gida and don't hang up until you have a promise/timetable for replacement. Even though it has a Kenmore name on it, the mfg will eventually stand behind their product. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[nickfixit]

I don't know if the manufacturer, Electrolux, will stand behind this unit. Because it's a Kenmore, I believe Sears took on all warranty responsibility in exchange for lower wholesale price. Electrolux can, with some justification, avoid replacing the unit by telling you to take it up with Sears.

If you could find someone in the Evil Empire/Sears with some brains, you could probably get it replaced under the terms of the Maintenance Contract. You've had 3 sealed system failures in less than 3 months.

Have you filed the food loss claims? I believe the MA contract will pay for each occurrence. You can use the food loss costs as leverage when pushing for exchange. Find out the max dollar amount, and hit them for it each time. You may need to produce a list of items, fake it if you need to.

Another option would be to see if the Technician could call STAC and tell them there is a restriction in the in-wall condenser loop. That could get it condemned, unless the weasels at Electrolux would have an external condenser they would want installed. Ask him to call his Tech Manager and see if they can get it replaced.

I think you're going to have to mount a war on 2 fronts. I think you can and should win, I'm just not sure what it will take to get you there. It's going to take a lot of time on the phone. I think you have more leverage with Sears, and I think Sears should replace it.

Nick

[jeff lee]

Thanks Nick
I am definetly (sic) gonna pursue this with sears, this is 1 m/a agreement they have lost money on, I usually do not believe in these contracts buts it's a good thing that it was purchased.
As for the lost food, I have made claims for each failure, $100 each visit, up to a max of $250.
Sears p/r office told me that, under the m/a a total of 4 (gasp!) sealed system failures have to occur before can they even start considering replacement.
By the way, I am the guy who owns the Indy 500 Kenmore dryer, thanks fo the advice on that too, $16 bucks and 1/2 hr. of work tamed that beast. It was the door switch, incredibly cheaply made and fragile part!
Happy Holidays!
Jeff Lee

[jeff lee]

Hey bud, thanks for the advice...
In my rage with Ms. Einstein @ sears I left out yet another earth-saving revelation from this female, " Have you been cleaning the condenser coils regularly?" I replied "in order fo me to do that madam, I would have to tear this thing apart, which, at this point does not sound like a bad idea"........silence on the sears end........" However if I did go that far that would surely void any m/a agreement, that I assure you, does exist on this p.o.s", her repy was a surprised "oh"
Furthermore, don't you think that the tech would of done this @ the 1st visit??. again, and not so surprised this time, "oh"
Sears tech to arrive Thursday, being that he has replaced everything in the sealed system possible, save the condenser, I would have to agree that it's definetly got problems somewhere in there.
Will keep those interested posted on this ongoing saga.....
Happy Holidays
Jeff Lee

[Mad Mac]

[user=425]nickfixit[/user] wrote:

I don't know if the manufacturer, Electrolux, will stand behind this unit. Because it's a Kenmore, I believe Sears took on all warranty responsibility in exchange for lower wholesale price. Electrolux can, with some justification, avoid replacing the unit by telling you to take it up with Sears.

Pretty much the way I understand it, Nick. $ear$ buy appliances (and not just Kenmore-branded) at a discounted price on a "no-warranty" basis and honour the manufacturer's warranty themselves. Problems occuring on days of the week ending in 'Y' are specifically excluded :shock:

[longtimer]

I am not rying to flame you and I feel for you and your problems. As many customers go into this very uninformed and you are not the exception.

1. IF you had 3 sealed system repairs, sears themselves should want out of this also, and your job is to find a reasonable person to agree. If these are truely the facts.

2. I do not know if your unit has electronics, but many units do, that do not look like they have electronics. electronic relays and adaptive defrost control boards. Keep to the issue at hand and not stray into areas that you may have limited knowledge

3. Cleaning a condensor coil may have nothing to do with your problem, it does not entail "tearing " the unit apart to clean!  (just showing your lack of understanding) SOme units do not have an exposed condensor unit.
I know when things go bad these things seem trivial but to me it shows a complete lack of understanding how things work.  stick to issues at hand........it does not cool and broken x times before with these problems when can I expect a reliable product in my home?

[jeff lee]

Dear sir,
Thank you for your response, however if you were to research this particular model and the original complaint, you will. indeed, see that you are the one that is misinformed.
Reguards,
Jeff Lee

[jeff lee]

Hello again my esteemed friend longtimer.
I neglected to ask you to scroll up within this forum, in that discussion, you will see that this particular unit has an in wall condenser, not readily accessable for cleaning.
Also, is not refrigeration the process of removing heat from an object? Do correct me if I am wrong, is this removed heat not dissapated by the condenser? Last time I checked my refrigeration manuals, it is very much desired to periodically clean this item from accumulated dust, dirt, etc., thereby allowing this item to perform it's intended job efficiently.
I welcome further discussion......
Jeff Lee

[nickfixit]

Jeff,

I would also point out that it's not you who is saying it has a sealed system problem, it is the technician. If fact the technician has performed 3 sealed system repairs between October and now.

Those people on the phone KNOW NOTHING at all. They are just passing on generic facts from a script that has been prepared for them. Ignore any technical advice or comments they make. Don't let their ignorance add to your stress levels.

Did you get your service call yesterday? If so, lets hear the details.

Nick

[longtimer]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but if the point is that a "in wall condensor" is hard to clean because it is not exposed you certainly do not know what you are talking about. 
A "in wall" condensor never gets cleaned. What is there to clean? wipe the side down? All you need with a in wall condensor is clearence.

I understand your pain..........but grow up!
how much is your time worth?
how aggravation are you up for?
solve the problem! buy another unit if you need to!

You do not hear me crying that my BMW blew a head gasket and it is out for 6 weeks. Deal with it. 

The real thing is what are we talking about $500. - $600.
chalk it up to one of lifes lessons

[Chat_in_FL]

[user=14155]longtimer[/user] wrote:

I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but if the point is that a "in wall condensor" is hard to clean because it is not exposed you certainly do not know what you are talking about. 

Dude, not only is that a bit harsh, but you are missing the point that [user=16794]jeff lee[/user] was trying to make about the call-taker being the one without a clue.

These frikidaire refrigerator units have a history of cooling issues. I have had to follow other techs who have cut into the sealed system with blinders on (SAME TECH REPLACING THE SAME PART OVER & OVER AGAIN), only to find the original problem was the defrost timer, or that the thermostat is stuck into the evaporator.

The way I see it, several things went horribly wrong:

1. [user=16794]jeff lee[/user] bought both a Maintenance Agreement AND a Repair Agreement? The Maintenance Agreement is a Repair Agreement with added features...

2. The technician should have called in for advice on the 2nd trip, STAC or otherwise. They may have been able to help remove the tech's blinders and look at other possible causes/sources of the problem.

3. The Lemon Policy has too much grey area in what qualifies as an attempted repair. For example, a technician can make 5 trips and order a different part each time. This all counts as ONE repair if the technician didn't close the order out.

4. Replacement policies seem to be written in stone, whether or not they make sense on a case by case basis. I agree with [user=425]nickfixit[/user], that "you have more leverage with Sears, and I think Sears should replace it."

[longtimer]

First, I would agree with you that I was Harsh!
But The point I wanted  to make is simple,

If you want to take the script readers to task @ $7.00/hr for not knowing what they are talking about. The are not skilled in appliance anything!
You better know what you are talking about. AKA CLEANING CONDENSORS.

Frigidaire has no direct responsibility for this.....this is strictly Sears......it does not matter who actually manufactured it if it says Kenmore on it....it is Sears


Second always keep in mind the actual cost of solving the problem and the price for being right......sometimes they merge.  so if the actual objective is to solve the problem maybe a new unit is in order......but if being right and the fact that Sears should be held responsible for this tavesty then you know you are in for a ride.

Third if you want better service then pay for it and go to an independent dealer, I  do not know of a good dealer that would stand for this. So As I see it you get what you pay for. Harsh as that seems.

[jahjahbinks]

CHECK THIS OUT  if you have a Master Protection Agreement you are entitled to up $250.00 food loss and a replacement appliance if it breaks down 4 times in less then one year / get ouy your contract and read it , if it is just a Repair Agreement then they can choose to replace it or keep trying to fix it, i have sold a ton of these.

[jeff lee]

Ah-so master longtimer, you have reached the highest honor in appliance repair land, truly worthy of a lolo haole.

[kdog]

so what was the final verdict on the sichkiation??  did the big S man bend over and excrete a new fridge upon your abode??

[jeff lee]

For those interested or care, yes Sears has made good on their no lemon policy by "excreting" a replacement fridge, exactly the same model and make of the original unit from hell.

This after repeated calls to nationwide 'customer care' dept., I have already emailed state legislators here about initiating a lemon law for applicances.......

The hapless Sears repair tech printed out the entire service history since day one,  total repair costs, parts and labor totalled almost $ 2,800 bucks! This is ONE maint. agreement sale that Sears lost money on!..........ask me if I care..........

[nickfixit]

Jeff,

I'm glad you got it replaced. It is sad that so much bullshit ,and time, had to elapse in between the problem and the resolution. Sears has a bureaucracy that makes the Soviet Union look like a model of efficiency.

Nick

[Scottthewolf]

It's true, Sears buys all their products from a vacuum cleaner to a refrigerator with no manufacturer warranty, Sears honors the manufacturer warranty themselves.

 

[Poobah]

Didn't know exactly where to post this, but with it being about Se-rs service it seemed appropriate and too good to not to

Had a lady just call about a Ge fridge (muthaboard type) she had called Se-rs and the man on the phone told her that from what she was telling him that even if they came out to look at it they probably wouldn't have the parts to fix it or even be able to tell her what was wrong with it, but he would  do some checking and call her back....  that was Mon or Tues and they still haven't called her.

Needless to say she was all distraught, and asked me why they wouldn't even call her back? I had one of those good vs evil moments but I decided that wouldn't be the best course of action. I procede to tell her about the lawsuit that ge has had and about all the trouble they have had with that ref. I then explained that Se-rs was a very big company and that she might have just slipped between the cracks as her ref. was out of warranty and with the suit they just might not want to mess with it ....I then proceede to tell her that her bidness was very important to me and I would be right out to help her, and thanked her for calling.  Before we hung up she said that she appreciated my kindness and help and she would be calling us for future repairs and purchases.

I learned along time ago that most people don't want to here you bad mouthing someone else (just those that want to gossip, and carry tales).  If you spend that time minding your P's &q's and doing your job, instead of tearing down someone else's job, no-one will ever have to tear down yours.....