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An Interesting Range challenge


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11 replies to this topic

#1 Docwood

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 03:38 PM

Several months ago my Landlady came over to take away my older, perfectly working range and replaced it with a "second hand" just bought brand new a few months ago Kenmore Self-cleaning Range.

Cool. Looks great. Digital. Wonderful. Oven works great. Self clean works great. The back right-hand-side burner works pretty good.

The problem is that the other burners just do not work properly.

Kenmore - Model number: C970-624081     Serial number: NF23211362   (C- must stand for Canada.)

I also see numbers like QE 214433 and 0227FM2     whatever they signify

Replaced Infinite switch number 318220000, for the front right-hand-side burner.  We use the large front right burner for most of our cooking so we thought to try and fix that one first.

Here is what we tried after installing the new switch and no real change, of course......too easy.

Tested good working back right surface burner receptacle: We turned it on to medium #5 on the dial, took about 50 seconds on full 235v then started a 10 second period with a 50% duty cycle. Seems ok to me.  After checking the other surface burner receptacle, which I'll go int later we again measured the "good surface burner receptacle and found that the period was now about 7 or so seconds but the duty cycle was still about 50% ( on about 3-4 seconds, which may be to spec.)

Now for the other surface burner receptacles. Well we found they showed a period of 14-16 seconds at medium setting, 235 volts, with extremely low duty cycle of about 1/2 second "on" or power on, time. This meant that for every 14-16 seconds the power would come on for half a second then be off.

On the new burner, front right hand side, the period was 5 seconds with  3 seconds on time. This was at the max setting! This made no sense.

Checked the elements for pitting and checked everything else, that I could think of.

Please help. Is it that darned computer card?

Thank you for your time.

Doc

 

 


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#2 kdog

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 08:34 PM

check the wattage rating of the elements,and make sure the wattage of the infinite switch matches the respective element; for example a 1200 watt switch feeding a 2600 watt element would render most unfavorable results. these ratings should be stamped/printed on the elements/switches.
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#3 Docwood

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 11:09 AM

Thank you for your answer. The problem however does not even, yet, refer to the burners themselves. We were measuring the power going to the surface burner receptacles and found that the wattage, voltage, amperage, etc was very inconsistant, except for the one good surface burner receptacle on the back right burner side.

The problem was not the switch, as we installed a new one and still received inconsistant and very inadaquate results. The receptacles look to be fine with no signs of damage at all.

Every one of them work, however they do not work properly.

Are there any other measurements that we can take to diagnose this problem without having to try and purchace a new computer board?

Thanks :)
Edited first post to be more clear, I hope.

#4 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 12:15 PM

If you're measuring unsteady voltage at the recepticles, the problem will be one of four things:

1. poor measuring technique, oxidized meter probes, bad meter, etc.

2. bad infinite switch

3. unsteady supply voltage

4. loose connection between the switch and recepticle.

There are no other possibilities.

#5 The Seven

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 12:38 PM

Docwood, this is a second-hand unit. Sounds it is not working properly from day one when you got it. There could be some incorrect wiring inside the unit. Have you checked it with its wiring diagram?
The Seven

#6 Docwood

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 08:36 AM

Yes, we tried to follow the diagram. My brother is an electronics and computer guy and I'm quite a do-it-yourselfer, myself. We think this was purchased broken and then shuffled off to us several months later.


That's why I was asking if anyone knew that the electronic board in the back had anything to do with the problems with the burners? The measuring device is state of the art by the way.

 

Keep those ideas comin' They are appreciated.

 

.........and thank you Kenmore.:poison:
 



#7 kdog

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:04 AM

first off,your unit was made by fridgidaire,and is known as a fridgemore(kenmore is just a name),secondly i am still unclear on exactly what it is you are testing- if you have your meter probes stuck in to the open ends of the element blocks and turn on the infinite switch and measure cycling voltage,this is normal,and depending how the infinite switch is constructed(some are series and some are parallel switches),the time on/time off without an actual load on the switch may not tell you anything.  the first thing to make sure of is that the right elements are connected to the correct switches-this is why they have a wattage label on both. what happens if you just plug the elements in and turn the switches to the high setting?  the circuit is a rather simple one-you have a switch that closes both legs of a 240v supply to the elements and cycles it accordingly- do you indeed have 240v???
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#8 Docwood

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 04:17 PM

Thank you so much! You put me on the right path.

The problem was the manufacturer had wired the 1500W Infinite switch  to the 2400W element (front element), and the 2400W infiniteswitch to the 1500W element (back element). I moved the switches (and had to exchange the wiring) to the correct element and everything is heating properly now.

Front Element: Large, 2400W
Back Element: Small, 1500W


Was:
Top Infinte Switch (to Back Element): QE214434 (250vac, 8.9-11.0A)
Bottom Infinite Switch (to Front Element): QE214433 (250vac, 5.3-6.4A)


Now:
Top Infinite (to Back (Small) Element): QE214433 (250vac, 5.3-6.4A)
Bottom Infinite Switch (to Front (Large) Element): QE214434 (250vac, 8.9-11.0A)

We had to calculate the wattage from the Infinite Switch as all it told us was 250VAC and the amps, but my brother's approximations made sense. It is also difficult to see the wattage on the Burners but we were finally able to.

This was like a Dectective story. Thanks for everyone's input. Each post made us think and  we figure someone on the assembly line must have had a great night at the bar.....:D

 


#9 kdog

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:00 AM

see,it was just that simple- didn't you say this was a second hand unit??  why are the folks at the factory to blame? they may have had nothing to do with it, what is more likely is that some moron who owned it, shorted a switch somehow,which by association,took out the switch beside it, took the unit apart without noting which switch went where,and mixed them up upon reinstallation- i've had to correct this problem many times,but it was always after somebody was playing around with it,not from the factory- now factories do make some pretty funny errors,but it is usually a wire left disconnected,in the wrong place,the wrong harness used etc.
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#10 Docwood

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:32 AM

This looked brand new. Both sides were wired wrong. The owner who had it only for several months knows nothing about .....really anything.

#11 kdog

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 12:53 PM

[user=1715]Docwood[/user] wrote:

This looked brand new. Both sides were wired wrong. The owner who had it only for several months knows nothing about .....really anything.

if somebody had replaced parts,they would have probably used "brand new" parts, so i ask you,when does it start looking not brand new. a number of different things could have occurred to that range before you got it, but my guess is that that mix up did not happen in the factory, their errors are almost never that simple to solve.
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#12 Docwood

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 09:48 PM

You're more than likely right. The real point is thanks to all your input, a stove top that has not been working is now working perfectly and for that we thank you all. :)




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