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GE Wall Oven Model jkp14wp2wg - Code F4


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#1 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:14 PM

My GE Wall Oven (Model# jkp14wop2wg according to the plate on the door, but jkp14wp2wg [without the "o"] everywhere else) threw an "F4" code a few weeks ago.  My local appliance repair guy said that his trusty book instructs him to replace the temp. sensor and the ERC.  But the ERC is no longer available, so while he could just replace the sensor, there's no guarantee it would fix anything.

I went to test the resistance of the temp. sensor, but I was frustrated to find that it was crimped to the oven wiring rather than having a Molex type connector, so I couldn't remove it without cutting wires.  So I did my best to test it while still wired up, and got a resistance of something like 850 Ohms.  I expected that a failure would indicate infinite resisance.  So I'm not sure what to make of my reading. 

Since the ERC is no longer available, it will have to be rebuilt rather than replaced.  Before shipping off the ERC, I turned the oven's power back on to double-check the code, and like any other computer I guess, rebooting it cleared the problem (for a while.)  No surprise that now the F4 code is back and rebooting isn't doing the trick any more. 

Now, based on the repair guy's word, it should either be the temp. sensor or the ERC.  If it were the temp. sensor, I wouldn't expect that "rebooting" the oven would fix it.  So I'm guessing that it's the ERC.

But before I spend the $135 to send the unit off to be rebuilt, I thought I would see if:

1)  Can anyone second-guess my reasoning when I assume that the partial success with "rebooting" the oven indicates that it must be the ERC?  Or, perhaps, does someone have direct experience with this behavior and have insight to offer?

2)  Is there a way to test the temp. sensor resistance from the wiring terminals at the ERC?

3)  Is there anything else you would do to make sure you weren't wasting money on unnecessary repairs?

Thanks so much.


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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:27 PM

F4  Shorted oven sensor (under 950 ohms)

You could measure it (disconnected) at the Controller ..

Controller may be mentioned in this GE Wall Oven Service Manual 31-9084

I could send to you if you PM your email address..

 

 

 

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#3 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 05:33 AM

PM sent


#4 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:28 AM

manual sent

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#5 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:17 AM

Thanks for the manual, RegUS_PatOff.  I also found the wiring diagram tucked away inside, so I'm following that now.

Well, it took me a while to get back to this project, but I have new info.

-With the sensor circuit disconnected from the ERC, and measuring at the connector pins, I consistently read within 2 or 3 Ohms of 1100 across the sensor.

-With the sensor circuit still disconnected, I read no short to ground.

-With the sensor circuit connected to the ERC, and measuring across the leads on the connector or across the solder points where the sensor circuit connects to the ERC board, the resistance is around 1052 Ohms.

-With the sensor circuit disconnected from the ERC and measuring across those same solder points, I read an open circuit.

-With the sensor connected to the ERC, I read between 1500 and 1600 Ohms to ground at each of those two solder points.

I'm not sure how I'm measuring a lower resistance with the ERC connected if the circuit is open on the ERC side.

What do you think?  Is it time to send the ERC for a rebuild?


#6 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 03:03 AM

I don't see where you mentioned if you tested the disconnected ERC pins to ground,
but I don't think those tests are relevant.

 

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#7 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:23 AM

As far as I know, the key thing here is that the sensor circuit reads perfectly with the ERC disconnected. 

If that means the sensor is fine, then is rebuilding the ERC the only remaining solution?


#8 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:40 AM

If you measured a sensor resistance of 850 ohms and the spec is 950 ohms, then that's far enough out of spec to throw an F4 error code.

#9 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:03 AM

[user=1]Samurai Appliance Repair Man[/user] wrote:

If you measured a sensor resistance of 850 ohms and the spec is 950 ohms, then that's far enough out of spec to throw an F4 error code.

but that was while it was still connected to the ERC ... so... looks OK

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#10 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:16 AM

[user=3641]RegUS_PatOff[/user] wrote:

[user=1]Samurai Appliance Repair Man[/user] wrote:

If you measured a sensor resistance of 850 ohms and the spec is 950 ohms, then that's far enough out of spec to throw an F4 error code.

but that was while it was still connected to the ERC ... so... looks OK


Domo for the clarification, Reg.

GFN, repeat the sensor resistance measurement but with the sensor disconnected from the ERC.  This can be done at the sensor's molex connector at the ERC-- remove and test, probes in the molex, not on the ERC.


#11 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:21 AM

Done that.

With the Molex connector removed from the ERC, the sensor circuit reads very close to 1100 Ohms (spec).

The 850 reading was, in fact, while connected to the ERC.  I have several other readings listed above in a previous post.

So, what I'm really looking for is this:  If the sensor circuit is within spec, then does that mean my problem must be a bad ERC?


#12 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 02:23 AM

Sensors can be tricky. They can measure good while at room temp but then flake out at cooking temps. See this story for an example of this phenomenon.

#13 GoodFerNuthin

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 12:02 PM

Enlightening story, Samurai.  I wish I had the wherewithal to pull the sensor out and test it in a boiling pot.  But the last thing I need is to cut it from the crimp connection to get it out, then find there's nothing wrong and have to rely on my substandard wiring skills to reinstall it.

I guess it's time for a command decision.  I know of only two remedies for the F4, replace the sensor or replace the ERC.  With no evidence of a bad sensor, I will just ship off the ERC for rebuild and hope that does it. 

On a related note, as a repair man, how do you get at the sensor to replace it?  I unscrewed it from the interior of the oven, pulled the connection through, saw that it was connected by crimps rather than Molex, and wondered how on Earth do you get both hands into the back of the oven to make a new connection?  Do you pull off the door, or do you pull the whole oven out from the wall?  I could only get one hand back there while the other hand supported my weight.  Otherwise I would have to put my weight on the door.  I don't think any appliance is built for that!


#14 certified tech group 51

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 01:41 PM

Removing the sensor.... knowing the trade ..........this is why we make the big $$$$............ To  test the sensor, I use a heat gun and a digital thermometer ( Meter with a  Type 'J'  probe ) to get the temp. to rise and have the sensor hooked-up to another  DMM ........ Remove the door is one way or remove the door and pull the oven........





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