Kenmore Elite Washer, AGAIN

[fourstar]

Serial 110.2096993

I need help troubleshooting this, please. I replaced the control board back in April. Now the touch panel is completely dead. I have power to the control board at P5.

Thanks in advance!

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Fax me the complete wiring diagram and tech sheet at 775-416-4449. I'll need to see that so we can plan our attack.

[fourstar]

It's on the way. Sorry for the delay. Had to go to work.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

No problem. Got your fax with the wiring diagram, posting it here so it's conveniently available.

No display or response on the touchpad: we have to determine whether or not the touchpanel is getting its supply voltage from the main board. Since they don't give us the wiring diagram for the touchpanel itself, we have to just check each pin on P3 and P4 for some low DC voltage, typically 24vdc or less.

If nothing, then it's a bad computer... again. If present, then probably a bad touch panel.

kirk_foster_washer.pdf

[fourstar]

As I was awaiting your reply, I flipped the panel closed and pressed a button, and the highly dishonorable thing worked!! I quickly did 3 loads of wash without a problem. It is still working normally, so I assume it would be a waste of time to do any troubleshooting at this point. This machine is possessed. I wonder if it's a karma thing.

Unless you have other instructions, I'm going to wait until it acts up again and perform this test. I suspect it will be when the laundry piles up and I am desperately in need of clean underwear.

Thanks again!

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

This sounds suspiciously like a loose or partially corroded connection somewhere. The ribbon connectors for the touchpad would be a good place to look. When you feel inspired, or the next time it happens, open the control panel, pull the touchpad ribbon connectors off the control board and clean off the contacts with a ruby red pencil eraser. It's an old Navy trick that Petty Officer Crowe, my A-School instructor, taught me.

[fourstar]

Aye Aye, sir. And as always, many thanks.

[fourstar]

Okay, it happened again today. I pulled all of the plugs and removed the control board and looked at all of the connections. I can't get to the ribbon cable contacts because of the way the plugs are constructed. I put it all back together and no change. The touch panel is completely dead. Wiring diagram is attached. Thanks.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Start by measuring to see if you're getting a steady 120vac between P5-1 (BLK)and P5-2 (WHT), this is the power supply for the control board.

[fourstar]

Checked, affirmative on 120 across P5 1&2. I checked each pin on P3 and P4 as directed above (about post 4) and I can't get any DC voltage on any of the pins. I used the 30 volt scale with the black lead connected to a ground and probed with the red lead.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Are you using a digital or analog meter?  If analog, and they're using negative voltage for the touch panel, then it can be easy to miss reverse needle peg.  If digital, recheck for DC voltage on a lower scale (if so equipped). 

[fourstar]

It's analog. I set it to the 3 volt scale and checked it DC+, then DC-. Then (because I don't really know what I am doing) I grounded the red lead and checked it DC+ and DC- again. (My VM has a 3 position switch labeled "DC-", "DC+", and AC.

I still don't detect any voltage at any of the pins.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Well, since the control board isn't getting a valid 120vac supply, and it's not supplying the touch panel with DC voltage, that means the problem is in the control board. Sometimes, in these cases, if you take the board out and turn it over, you'll see a burnt solder connection where the hot 120vac line connects at P5. IF yer lucky!

[fourstar]

I'm not sure I understand. Why do you say the control board isn't getting 120v AC? (I have it going into the board at P5, right?)

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Sorry, total typo/brain-fart. You're right: the reasoning goes that because the control is getting 120vac but not putting out DC for the touchpanel, that means the board has a problem.

[fourstar]

I just bought this board in April from our friends at RepairClinic.com. 7 months is a pretty short life for a $170. part. I certainly hope they will work with me on it...

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

The board should have a one year manufacturer's warranty. You'll be working with Whirlpool (FSP) on the replacement. They're decent and won't give you a hard time.

[fourstar]

Thanks. As always, I appreciate your help. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Lemme know how it works out.

And Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!

[fourstar]

Latest in the continuing saga...

After my last missive, I got online and looked up a new board and saw that it would be backordered with a 7-10 day estimated delivery. (Major bummer, with Thanksgiving coming and the usual assortment of houseguests.) I wanted to speak with customer service on the warranty issue, so I decided to call first thing Monday morning. I put the DISHONORABLE washer back together and left it unplugged all night. Called Customer Service and we decided I would order a new part and ship the old one back for warranty adjustment after I received the new part. I plugged the machine back in and checked the panel by just pushing a button. Still dead. The wife took several loads of laundry to her mothers. Monday night, checked the panel again (just pushing a button when I walk by.) Still dead. Tuesday night, push a button and the @#$%ing thing works. We're on our second load of laundry with the machine working fine. Once we get caught up on laundry - and if it continues to function, I plan to check for voltage on the ribbon cable again just to see if I'm getting any, how much, and which pin is supposed to be hot. If it was happening to someone else, I'd think it was funny...

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

It's entirely possible that this intermittent operation is simply the failure mode of this board. It's the case with other electronic boards, such as the Even Heat monstrosity in some Whirlpool (and Kenmore) dryers. If so, then I would expect for periods of normal operation to become less frequent and for the dead periods to continue to increase in length until finally it dies forever. Such is the nature of semi-conductor materials as the P-N junction begins to breakdown. So, if you were to test it on a "good hair day" when the there is DC voltage supply present for the touchpanel, then I expect the machine would work...until the control board decided to quit again.

Keep the faith, mah bruthah, and don't let Whitey keep you down!

[fourstar]

Okay Great One, I have a question. Just to confirm the diagnosis that the control board is bad, while everything was working I checked for DC voltage at all of the pins on P3 and P4. I used the .3 volt scale and checked for positive and negative. I still found no voltage at any of the pins. (I tested my volt meter on a 1.5 volt battery and it works.)

I'm no electrician and I'm not positive that I am doing the test properly, and I am not questioning your knowledge, but if the board doesn't have power at any of the pins when the machine is working, then no power at any of the pins when the machine isn't working does not indicate board failure. Right?

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

I think I agree with what you're saying, I'll re-state for clarity.

If you do not have any DC voltage at the touchpanel connectors on the control board yet the washer still works, then the board is not the problem.

If you do have DC voltage at the touchpanel connectors on the control board and the washer does not work, then the problem may be the control board-- would need to do further testing.

[fourstar]

[user=1]Samurai Appliance Repair Man[/user] wrote:

If you do not have any DC voltage at the touchpanel connectors on the control board yet the washer still works, then the board is not the problem.

Not exactly - The board may still be the problem, it just is not proved to be so by a lack of DC voltage at P3 and/or P4. because the washer works whether or not voltage is detected there.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=303]fourstar[/user] wrote:

The board may still be the problem, it just is not proved to be so by a lack of DC voltage at P3 and/or P4. because the washer works whether or not voltage is detected there.

Is this what you're seeing? I'd be very surprised if that were case. Since the DC voltage for the touchpanel is rectified and produced on the control board, absence of that DC voltage means the control board is bad by definition because it no longer conforms to design specifications.