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      ***READ THIS PRIOR TO STARTING A NEW TOPIC***   05/02/2016

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Tim M

OLD Caloric compacto 30 oven

14 posts in this topic

I have looked all the usual places for model numbers with no luck.

This little old lady LOVES her old pilot light oven which she got used 40 years ago, so it may be 60 years old. She agrees that all the stuff they are making these days is JUNK.

So she is spending three hours baking up a batch of golumki and the CO alarm goes off upstairs, but not in the kitchen.

On two more occasions she sets off the alarm with an hour of cooking.

EVERY time the alarm goes off 15 minutes AFTER the oven is shut off.

Fire department and gas company confirmed it is oven. Read high CO levels continuing from the vent past the point when it should have dropped down to normal.

The oven is spotless, it looks like new inside and out.

Flames in oven burner are perfectly blue, no yellow at ends, about 1" to 1-1/2" long. Somewhat pointed at ends.

I don't see a thing that is wrong.

Is there any hope of her keeping the oven she loves so much?

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Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now!

OH and she already had another guy out here looking at it and he couldn't find anything wrong either.

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Gas ovens crank out 800ppm of CO while running. This is normal operation for them; read more here. The delay in alarm going off could be latency or it could be that the burner isn't going out all the way and it's sputtering with incomplete combustion, which is exactly how CO is formed.

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get a digital read-out CO detector to see the actual readings

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Gas ovens crank out 800ppm of CO while running. This is normal operation for them

As I understand it, from the limited web browsing I've done on the topic. 800ppm is the maximum allowable level. That might be achieved during ignition, and then will quickly drop. And isn't that 800ppm in the oven or possibly at the vent? That means it would be a fraction of that in the room, doesn't it?

She just called me and the alarm went off again. This time she used the oven for 3/4 of an hour. Then 15 minutes AFTER it was turned off, the alarm went off again. Since it is always causing problems 15 minutes AFTER it is turned of whether it ran for 3/4 hour or 3 hours, it seems that during normal operation there is no problem.

So it seems that the Samurai's theory of not shutting all the way off could be the problem. How do I check for that and how do I fix it? When I watch it turning off, I turn the dial down and the pilot flame backs off the thermocouple, then the burner goes out a second or two later. OH! Is the burner flame supposed to be going out at the same time as the pilot reduces??? Is it only shutting off because the safety mechanism is kicking in. That is, is the dial shutting off the extra gas to the pilot, but still providing gas to the burner for awhile?

If so is there any hope of getting parts?

Edited by Tim M

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One more thing giving credence to the idea covered in my last post. If the control dial is bad, she mentioned something about that. Years ago the oven wasn't turning on at all. The "repair"man gave the dial a whack and it sprang to life.

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You could have a leaky safety valve, but the valve is operating correctly as far as the time for the gas to shut off to the main burner after the secondary/heater pilot is shutoff.

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Willie,

So that means the temperature control is working properly and shutting it off completely? Then, since the safety valve leaks, all or much of the gas in the main tube between the temperature control and the safety valve leaks out? And it either improperly combusts or doesn't combust?

How can I test that?

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CO is a product of incomplete combustion. Period. Unburned gas contains ZERO CO. Leaking, unburned gas does not and cannot cause or create CO.

A sputtering or smoldering burner tube, however, creates copious amounts of CO. If this is the case, you will see evidence of heavy soot accumulation inside inside burner tube. I've seen it built up like black styrofoam. Sooting and CO production go together-- both are products of incomplete combustion.

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If this is the case, you will see evidence of heavy soot accumulation inside inside burner tube. I've seen it built up like black styrofoam.

I will check this out. Given the timing of it, am I safe to assume it is the safety?

If it is the safety, do stoves this old come apart easily, or will things likely break?

And for part purchasing or rebuilding I found this:

http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/antiquestoveparts.htm

Are there others you would recommend?

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Standing pilot ignition: I would change both the safety and the pilot assembly.

Hot surface ignition: replace both the safety and ignitor.

These old stoves were made better than the newer junk today. But you'll probably run into rusted screws.

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Had some input from another repair person in this area. Thought I'd post his questions to include a thorough discussion. His questions in italics below:

Tim,

In trying to understand what's going on, I wonder if

all the instances for all the different oven intervals, always occurred about 15' after the oven was turned off.

It doesn't always set off the alarm. When it does, it is 15 minutes after the thing is shut off for good. It seems like the oven was being used anywhere from 45 minutes to 3 hours beforehand.

For - "Fire department and gas company confirmed it is oven. Read high CO levels continuing from the vent past the point when it should have dropped down to normal." - did they measure this while oven was operating? In the interval at end of baking? Or after that?

I'm not sure on this one. Who knows they might have done it when it was initially firing up.

This was a really good question:

When maintaining temperature, the flame will normally go on and off periodically. Does the alarm trigger, with 15' delay, for each of the off parts of the cycle?

No. It ONLY happens after the thing has been shut down for good. Could that provide a clue to whether it is the safety or the thermostat having problems?

It seems from your description that the main flame goes off cleanly, without sputtering or partial burn. It also seems that you're not finding evidence of carbon deposits in the usual places. Is the burner flame even all around the burner head? Are there any holes with smaller, absent, wavering or misshaped flames?

All the flames look perfect. I hadn't looked inside the tube for carbon deposits when I was there. It could have a sputtering burn inside the tube that I don't see. That means that when the temperature control is turned down it would still be sputtering inside the tube. In that situation the flame has been turned off and the pilot light gets smaller so both the safety and temperature control are shutting off the gas supply.

And is there a vent hood or exhaust fan set up for this stove. If so, does it vent to the outside?

I don't [remember].

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. Closing out this post. I got a lovely thank you letter from the little old lady. She was so happy to have her oven up and running again, and to be saved from buying a modern piece of junk.

. It was the safety valve and I sent it out to have it rebuilt to The Old Appliance Club

http://www.antiquestoves.com/TOAC/

Their page on rebuilt Safety Valves:

http://www.antiquest...afetyvalves.htm

They seem to be associated with RepCo replacement parts

http://www.erepco.com/

. The safety rebuild, with shipping, was around $200. With a couple of trips the bill got up there, but she was delighted, and now I have a place for vintage parts.

. So many thanks for the advice and here's a $10 donation to the beer fund.

http://fixitnow.com/united-samurai-beer-fund/

Edited by Tim M

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Mucho domos for the brewskis, Tim, and nice job on the repair! Cheers! :cheers:

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