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LG Wall Oven -> LWS3081ST Weird Malfunctions.


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10 replies to this topic

#1 Muddbucket

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:44 PM

So, I sold a customer an LG kitchen package about 2 months ago. They love everything however the wall-oven has never worked correctly since day one.

It was installed correctly and everything on the outside looks good.

The problem here is that when using bake as per the instruction manual the oven will preheat and preheat and preheat but never actually switch into a baking mode.
The customer can set the oven for 375, start it and it will start the preheat cycle. During this time the temperature will go up as intended but it simply will not change from preheat to bake
even when the oven reads 375 on the control panel and roughly the same internally verified with a remote monitor.

Roast will work correctly, most other functions will work correctly but bake and convection bake never leave the preheat cycle

The service tech in question I've dealt with before. He's currently on my sh*tlist.

He went to a customers home to diagnose a leaking LG frontloader, opened the TOP of the machine, said theres nothing wrong and left.
I instructed the customer on how to check the PUMP ASSY and the Bellows, Customer found a tear in the bellows, replaced, and all is well

He went to a customers home to diagnose a non-drying LG dishwasher (LFD7920) and said theres nothing wrong with it. I loaned the customer a temperature gun, a remote thermometer, and instructed them
to ensure rinse agent was adjusted accordingly and that the water was reaching the necessary temperature for the condensation drying system to work. I instructed the customer to ensure that there was
minimal air circulation outside of the tub to make sure that the tub was not being affected by a low ambient temperature. Customer verified all was green so I gave him the soap/rinse agent dispenser off my floor model
and showed him how to swap it out. His machine is now functioning correctly.

Both times these machines were out of warranty, he collected an $80 trip charge and an $92 diagnostic fee.

The customer has been keeping a hawkeye on him as per my instruction as I want to know how he is proceeding and what he's ruling out as he seems to refuse to call LG tech support for assistance.

He checked power TO the bake element but it was never confirmed he checked element with an ohm meter for proper continuity.
He told the customer he replaced a relay and that did not fix it. Unconfirmed if he actually did or not.


So where should the next step go diagnosis wise? This time the tech atleast freely admitted he's never worked on one before and has no idea what he's doing.
If need be I can go out and perform some diagnostics. The oven sensor would at first glance appear to be functioning correctly as the reading on the control panel closely matches that of the actual oven temperature.
Preheating cycle utilizes the bake element no? So the bake element should be working as intended. Or is preheat done via broil element?

Thanks in advance.

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#2 john63

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:33 PM

LG wall ovens function nearly identically to the free standing models. Very little change between them.

The MAIN BOARD is *not* functioning properly. There may be a software glitch (No Service Bulletins Exist Yet).

Replace the MAIN BOARD (EBR43296802).
To eliminate:

Musty odor

L-O-N-G cycle times

Dingy/yellowing whites

Suds error message

Slow spin speeds

Intermittent water leaks (from rear of washer)

And other annoying symptoms which vary brand-to brand.

Read below:

The *correct* amount of HE (High Efficiency) detergent that should be used in any front load or agitatorless top load washer with tub sizes 3.0 cu ft and larger is as follows:

HE: (2) Tablespoons Per Wash Load

HE 2X: (1) Tablespoon

HE 3X: (1) Teaspoon

Perform a TUB CLEAN CYCLE every (4) months.

Use: "Tide Washing Machine Cleaner"

#3 john63

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:37 PM

<<<He told the customer he replaced a relay and that did not fix it.>>>

*********

The OVEN RELAY BOARD rarely fails---when it does---it's usually the result of a mis-wired power connection at the TERMINAL BLOCK. Resulting in a small explosion.

If the OVEN RELAY BOARD was defective--there would be either no bake or no broil (or both if a "bomb" went off).
To eliminate:

Musty odor

L-O-N-G cycle times

Dingy/yellowing whites

Suds error message

Slow spin speeds

Intermittent water leaks (from rear of washer)

And other annoying symptoms which vary brand-to brand.

Read below:

The *correct* amount of HE (High Efficiency) detergent that should be used in any front load or agitatorless top load washer with tub sizes 3.0 cu ft and larger is as follows:

HE: (2) Tablespoons Per Wash Load

HE 2X: (1) Tablespoon

HE 3X: (1) Teaspoon

Perform a TUB CLEAN CYCLE every (4) months.

Use: "Tide Washing Machine Cleaner"

#4 Muddbucket

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 11:43 PM

Customer called me back with a rem number john,

The tech told LG it was unrepairable.

LG warranty bought into whatever nonsense he told them, at first the customer called me and told me the tech told her I was replacing it.
When I called him and asked him what his deal was he backpedaled and admitted LG was. We sold the wall oven two months ago.

I don't think it's right that this unit needs to be replaced instead of repaired. The tech informed the customer she will need to recall an electrician to remove the old
wall oven and install the new one upon arrival.

I am so furious beyond words at the moment. John, you work for LG.. what can be done about this guy? He never completes repairs. Everything is either "Working as intended" or "Unrepairable"

What are the chances LG will want this unit destroyed in the field? I'd like to get my hands on it for a post mortem.

#5 john63

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:00 AM

<<<Customer called me back with a rem number>>>

**********

RM number---a "case number" for keeping a record of the customer and repair/replace process.

**********

<<<The tech told LG it was unrepairable.>>>

**********

Problably not accurate. May be more that---the "technician" cannot repair it.

**********

<<<what can be done about this guy? He never completes repairs. Everything is either "Working as intended" or "Unrepairable">>>

**********

In the immediate short term---not much.
Contact CUSTOMER SERVICE and your SALES REPRESENTATIVE to voice your concerns.
If the Authorized Servicer does not show improvement over the longer-term he's likely not going to be representing LG for warranty service.

***********

<<<What are the chances LG will want this unit destroyed in the field? I'd like to get my hands on it for a post mortem.>>>

************

I work closely with a local mom & pop (brick & mortar) TV / electronics / appliance retailer.
Some months back---they too sold an LG double wall oven which needed to be examined. At some point in shipping/delivery the unit was damaged considerably. This was *condemned* and a RETURN AUTHORIZATION was approved which allowed the retailer to be reimbursed for the cost of a replacement wall oven. This retailer has two delivery crews---and they were tasked with picking up the damaged unit and exchanging with the new unit.
Since the kitchen in the home was ungoing a complete overhaul---the oven had never been installed to begin with. The replacement was simply "dropped off". Easy job.
The retailer then placed the "dud" wall unit near their loading dock door---ready for return shipping---when the next truckload of new appliances were shipped from the distributor.
In your case---this would be an ideal time to examine the wall oven.
In many cases---these returned units are simply destroyed without an analysis being done. The time & effort is simply not worth it---unless LG is **researching** a possible fault that has been found to be a recurring one---requiring a failure analysis (these result in Service Bulletins).

Edited by john63, 26 July 2011 - 01:18 AM.

To eliminate:

Musty odor

L-O-N-G cycle times

Dingy/yellowing whites

Suds error message

Slow spin speeds

Intermittent water leaks (from rear of washer)

And other annoying symptoms which vary brand-to brand.

Read below:

The *correct* amount of HE (High Efficiency) detergent that should be used in any front load or agitatorless top load washer with tub sizes 3.0 cu ft and larger is as follows:

HE: (2) Tablespoons Per Wash Load

HE 2X: (1) Tablespoon

HE 3X: (1) Teaspoon

Perform a TUB CLEAN CYCLE every (4) months.

Use: "Tide Washing Machine Cleaner"

#6 Muddbucket

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:01 AM

Thanks for the reply john, If we end up handling the replacement when we get a RGA number I will take the LWS3081ST into the store for a full autopsy before returning it. Nowhere on the internet can I find anybody having an issue with an LG wall oven even remotely similar. I'll be talking to my sales rep from LG about keeping the dud control panel with me and about having that service tech watched like a hawk. Theres only 5 appliance retailers in my city and LG is their highest selling brands so having repair service is paramount to keeping the reputation going. Now, I understand that the control panels themselves can have software updates, correct? IE: I ordered a DLE5101V to replace a floor model. My floor model did NOT have Smart Diagnosis but this new one does, apparently its all in the software. Is there a diagnostic port of any kind on these control panels? A way to flash the EPROMs or whatever holds the software? The two older gentlemen here in town who worked on LG that were absolutely marvelous retired within two weeks of eachother so we're stuck with this other guy. I almost feel like its time to train to become an LG appliance tech. On average I sell 50-60 LG appliances every two weeks. Been at it for years, I don't like the idea of this guy working on my customers beautiful machines.

#7 Muddbucket

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:09 AM

In many cases---these returned units are simply destroyed without an analysis being done.



That's so unbelievably sad.

I've been inside the LWD3081ST, the double oven version.

Everything is so beautifully engineered and arranged. Every access panel fits like a glove. Almost all wires are easily traced and well bound together to keep things neat and tidy. Theres no evidence of cut corners
or accountants being involved in any way shape or form.

It reminds me so much of their frontloaders. Only appliance I could tear down and put back together with a pair of channel lock pliers, a phillips head screwdriver, a 15mm socket, an 11mm socket and about 30 minutes.

Destroying such beautiful machines :(

#8 john63

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 10:22 AM

<<<Nowhere on the internet can I find anybody having an issue with an LG wall oven even remotely similar.>>>

***********

Keep in mind that WALL OVENS account for a tiny segment of the market.
Back in 2005---there were approximately 5 million freestanding ranges (all brand names) sold in the US.
The category for WALL OVENS---showed that some 22,000 were sold.

***********

<<<I understand that the control panels themselves can have software updates, correct?>>>

***********

No wireless reprogramming capability exists for the LG brand---yet.
If there's an image of a cellphone on the CONTROL PANEL---this allows for limited diagnostics (electronics only) of the appliance via cellphone (check for error messages).

***********

<<<Everything is so beautifully engineered and arranged. Every access panel fits like a glove. Almost all wires are easily traced and well bound together to keep things neat and tidy. Theres no evidence of cut corners
or accountants being involved in any way shape or form.

It reminds me so much of their frontloaders. Only appliance I could tear down and put back together with a pair of channel lock pliers, a phillips head screwdriver, a 15mm socket, an 11mm socket and about 30 minutes.>>>

***********

Damn! That's the best observation that I've seen yet:)

This is also why it drives me crazy when other "techs" trash talk the LG brand.

The simplicity & logic of the LG designs---reminds me of GM/Chevy. Attention was given (and it costs money to do this) to designing appliances for ease of diagnostics & service. Not an accident at all.

Once the software/programming aspect is understood (LG training)---it's unbelievably simple/easy to diagnose & repair.

This is not the case with most other brands at all.

Good luck.
To eliminate:

Musty odor

L-O-N-G cycle times

Dingy/yellowing whites

Suds error message

Slow spin speeds

Intermittent water leaks (from rear of washer)

And other annoying symptoms which vary brand-to brand.

Read below:

The *correct* amount of HE (High Efficiency) detergent that should be used in any front load or agitatorless top load washer with tub sizes 3.0 cu ft and larger is as follows:

HE: (2) Tablespoons Per Wash Load

HE 2X: (1) Tablespoon

HE 3X: (1) Teaspoon

Perform a TUB CLEAN CYCLE every (4) months.

Use: "Tide Washing Machine Cleaner"

#9 Muddbucket

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:27 AM

Oh, the difference in design is clear. Part of my "sales pitch" to a customer is ease of repair down the road. When warranty expires most issues can be tackled by a customer.

The frontloaders seem to be designed from the ground up to be serviced with ease.

Case in point, lets use the back access panel.

It's big enough to service the HALL sensor, the rotor/stator and anything else. It's removed quickly with x4 phillips head screws. Then take say a Maytag Maxima from Whirlpool, you need a 1/4" nut driver and you need to remove so, so, so many to just get access to anything.
Then once the Maxima back panel is off, want to remove the rotor from the stator? Hope you got a big ol' hex driver with you. Or is it Torx? I cannot remember.

Under the hood of the LG, the wiring for the control panel is easily accessible, it sticks out of the chassis infront of the tub with some quick connecting harnesses. The wires are NOT zip-tied to the frame but are put in with reusable clips.
The washtub assembly is held together with bolts that can be removed with a socket easy as pie. There is a HOIST POINT on top of the tub that you could use to literally pull the heavy tub assembly out with an engine hoist to make things easier.

The mixing tub for softeners and such? No stupid divert valve setup like in the maytags, that rinky dinky piece of garbage thats moved by a little motor and an arm. No sir. Independent solenoid valves that can be removed and replaced in under 5 minutes if one is malfunctioning.
This is a city of hard water, thats a godsend. two phillips head screws on the back, remove the hose clamp with a pair of pliers and bam its out. That cannot get any simpler.

The part of LG I DON'T like is their marketing department though. The new WM224 and the like being advertised as 4.3 cubic foot capacity. Yes this is somewhat true but not in a really useable way. I can see why they wanted a 4.3 instead of a 4.0 (To compete with Samsung, which are extremely similar in design) The way they got the .3 of a cubic foot was by recessing the washtub back past the arms of the drum support spider. Clothes would have a pretty difficult time getting into there.

The WM214 sold for about $1150/set around town here. The WM224 which is basically a carbon copy except for the new washtub sells for about $1400+/set which is sad because I absolutely loved the WM214, very, very simple machines with minimum fuss and high serviceability.

I've been having a boatload of fun with LG frontloaders here in the store.

John, have you ever taken a control panel from a higher-end LG and stuck it on a cheaper model? I can take the control panel from a WM290 and make it work on a WM215 which is all sorts of hilarious to me. Mind you the steam functions aren't there.

Another thing I like about LG frontloaders, all the machines from the high end to the low end are almost the exact same machine. The door boot for the WM214 has the nipples for the steam assembly, the mounts for it, etc etc, its just not there. They have one machine but many different options. Compare this to the manufacturing of other companies where the "You get what you pay for" actually rings true.

Now about LG dishwashers, could they be any more of a Bosch john? I know back in the day LG dishwashers weren't all that great but these new ones are hilarious. 33.6" tall? Same as a bosch, the LDS4821 (This is a canadian model number) has the horns on the front of the upper glides and two sets of wheels to allow for manual raising/lowering, much like a Bosch.

And much like a Bosch they are kinda finnicky. I did notice the bitumen coating on the outside of the machine seems to be of the same quality as a Bosch, also, no membrane buttons, win win here.

LGs new line of french-doors owns bones to. They did away with the gasket design they had that kept ripping (You know how every other manufacturer has that hinged center support that slips into place? LG didn't and their gaskets sealed to themselves but the constant action of customers opening and closing them caused the gaskets to tear, my two floor models have partially torn gaskets) now they have that hinged center support again so happy happy day.

I don't work for LG if anyones wondering.

I just love taking the things apart. Much like everything else in life, its whats on the inside that matters.

#10 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:36 AM

... I just love taking the things apart. Much like everything else in life, its whats on the inside that matters.

http://appliantology...ppliantologist/
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#11 Muddbucket

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:29 PM

http://appliantology...ppliantologist/



I don't fix em for a living. I sell em. Spent years doing so.

I figure if I can rip apart my floor models I can make sure I'm not selling crap.

This website in conjunction with parts diagrams from searspartsdirect, whirlpoolparts, repairclinic and the wonderful world
of the internet allows me to virtually take apart and examine any appliances out there.

The only brands I haven't taken apart are Fisher Paykel, Asko, etc.

The main NA brands like LG, Samsung, Whirlpool brands, GE etc I've mostly torn down and passed judgement. Theres machines I will simply refuse to sell based on
feedback from my customers, repair calls from when I worked at Sears and massive amounts of research and reading. I refer to our G.E. dishwasher display as the Wall of Shame.

Appliances in and of itself kills me. Alot of times things will not make any sense whatsoever. Bosch is a semi-trusted name in these parts. The name itself is sold on the "quality" then they do silly
things like letting Frigidaire build their lower end of ranges. Why would you do that? Or opening up a new washing machine to find aluminum motor windings instead of copper, who approves these decisions?

However in the end I realize it's not always the manufacturer who is at fault (Unless we're mentioning the Neptunes...) sometimes its just defective customers. Yes, the G.E. Dishwasher says it has a piranha hard food disposer
However that does not mean its functional as a garbage disposal.

Most manufacturers I have a love/hate relationship with. When W.C. Woods went out of business I did a little jig, they were a cause of much pain and suffering for myself and my customers. Sure there were a few customers affected by NLA part issues but thems the breaks.
Then commeth Whirlpool, with their brand spanking new line of uprights and allfridges, suspiciously looking like W.C. Woods, suspiciously having the same issues that W.C. Woods did. Damn you Vulturepool, damn you.

I think the only company I hate with a burning passion would be Frigidaire. Mucho headaches for me, mucho pain for customers, mucho "BUT ITS A KENMORE IT SHOULD BE GOOD" No, it's a Frigidaire.

Ever seen the $699 fully integrated Kenmores built by Frigidaire? They vent out the top of the machine, not the top of the door like Maytag/Kitchenaids, but out the top of the back of the machine. When we had a customer complain of a bubble in their laminate
Frigidaire told the tech to go buy marine sealant to seal the countertop and to remound the dishwasher so it stuck out further than it was supposed to so it could allow for better venting from around the machine. The frame was past the actual cabinet itself when they gave the new measurements for mounting.

or the Frigidaire wall ovens with selfclean and convection sold under the Kenmore brand, goddamn Consumer Reports says they're the bees knees. Know what? They're not, that stupid thermal safety or whatever at the back just goes off like a rocket if a customer uses a 2 hour self cleaning cycle. You know the sensor I'm talking about, It's by the back electronics near the fan, it's mounted flush to the rear panel where theres not enough insulation, heads up to a billion degrees, pops and then the unit is dead until a tech comes and pulls it and resets it.

Heres a non official fix for that, slip a thin flathead screwdriver in between the sheet metal and the safety, tighten the screws, remove screwdriver, enjoy the tiny airgap that will still allow the safety to function but make it less prone to popping out under standard conditions. This is probably dangerous as all hell though.

Then there were the Frigidaire cooktops with those stupid infrared touch controls, anytime the customer would brush their hand 5-6" over the controls to grab a pot the controls would fire off as if their finger was on them. Frigidaire charged the customer $500 for one of these boards on a $1200 cooktop. A month later, same issue.

I'm jaded and mostly ignorant though so who knows.




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