15 replies to this topic

[BearCreekMike]

Greetings oh honorable masters of appliantology... I come before you seeking wisdom that might drive out the demon that possesses my Kenmore Washer, model number 110.28972890.

The incident: Wife was washing sons blanket yesterday... The blanket has been washed many times before without a problem - no "off balance" (I taught wife to evenly distribute blanket around the tub before starting the wash cycle), no problems at all previously... But yesterday, she calls and advises that the utility room has water in the floor from the washer and that the washer is leaking. I told her to shut every thing down and to fight the water - I would be home as soon as possible.

Analysis upon arriving home: Washer had not leaked... Washer had overflowed. Removed blanket from washer and pulled all but a small amount of water from the tub. Plugged in washer. Moved control to "spin" so as to remove remaining water. Closed the safety switch circuit on the lid with a screwdriver, so as to allow me to see what was happening. Pulled out control to start the spin cycle... Agitator and inner tub started to spin for just a brief moment, moved only about 2-3 inches and stopped. Motor continued humming for a moment before I cut it off via pushing the control switch back in. It was late, I was tired, and I needed to think things through on this problem - so I went to bed with plans of tearing into the washer this morning.

This morning: Went to computer and pulled up this site. Pulled information regarding diagnosing transmission problems. Pulled cabinet, put jumper on lid switch. Put unit in spin mode and pulled out on control to start machine. Same as last night. Slight movement, stops, motor humming. Unplugged machine.

Pull off the pump. No leaks there. Turned impeller and got movement of water in the tub. Did not feel any resistance as if there might be something blocking the pump. This is a fairly new pump that I installed with help from the forum.

Pulled motor. Motor turns freely with no noted excessive play in the shaft. I checked the motor-to-transmission couplings, as I know these are subject to wear and could (if sorely abused, I guess) break and cause some sort of binding within the drive train. Couplings are good on motor and on transmission - I had replaced them not that long ago without issue (again, thanks to this forum.)

Using the coupling as a means of turning the tranmission input shaft, I was able to move the inner tub of the washing machine by hand. I turned it at least one full turn and did not run into any resistance when doing so.

Frustrated, I took some time to clean the dispenser trays and the lip around the top of the tub while I thought about this problem... Pump is smooth and working. Motor is turning freely. Transmission seems to be okay when turned by hand.

My idea for you to expand upon or rip apart completely: Could it be that the starter capacitor for the motor has gone bad, thus preventing the motor from starting fully and powering the pump to remove the water from the wash cycle? The cycle switch mechanism would be blindly powering the non-running motor and would continue the wash cycle providing the rinse water that would have spilled over the top... Or are the motor and starter capacitor okay and I've missed something else? The motor and capacitor are original to the machine. Not having worked on washer transmissions previously, I wasn't sure how much resistance (if any) I should have encountered. After reassembling the machine, it (as expected) behaved just as it did prior to my taking it apart - but at least the dispenser trays are clean... I am at a loss and am hoping that someone who has encountered this problem previously can provide guidance.

The capacitor is available at RepairClinic.com. And yes, I believe that is the best return policy I've ever seen. But I hate to order a part that might not be the "problem solver" and then have to send it back. My other repairs have been an easy diagnosis... This one, no so much...

Thanks,
Mike

[kdog]

Try running the motor while it is disconnected from the transmission, if you set it to the wash cycle and blow into the airdome tube, It will run in one direction - if you set to spin it will run opposite direction.
This has a speed selector switch as well that can cause issues, try changing the selections.

Further to the leak, I have seen many blankets become pretty good floating parachutes once they are wet and washed, and then refilling with water they rise in the machine and direct the water off the back of the tub ring and down the back. Due to this, whenever washing such items - machine should be "babysat" and while refilling to rinse, watch and adjust the blanket/comforter etc to release the trapped air.

[BearCreekMike]

Thanks, kdog... I'll give that a shot. By airdome tube, are you referring to the clear tube that runs up to the water level selector?

I'll remove one half of the coupler set between the motor and the transmission so that it can run free of a load and see what happens... I'll check it at different speeds as well.

I don't think I'll allow anymore blanket washing unless it is truely being "babysat"...

I APPRECIATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE!!!

Mike

[RegUS_PatOff]

.. started to spin for just a brief moment,

will it Agitate OK ?

[certified tech group 51]

With the motor sitting on the floor and in the spin cycle, timer pulled and the motor is just humming, give it a little spin...will it start to spin???...............If it does, it could be the start windings of the motor have failed.....

[RegUS_PatOff]

...If it does, it could be the start windings of the motor have failed.....

OR bad Contacts in the Timer ...

[kdog]

_{..... Or a bad Capacitor}

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

_{..... Or a bad Capacitor}

Don't you mean Capacitator, Brothumer kdog?

[BearCreekMike]

Okay... Here's the update:

Pulled the cabinet again. Bridged lid switch. Machine will fill as normal. No agitation. No spin. (And no pumping out of water as would normally occur in that cycle.)

Pulled pump. Still no agitation. Still no spin.

Pulled motor from chassis. Runs like a locomotive with its boiler at the redline, both directions, and without any assistance. I don't think I have a capacitor problem considering how fast it took off. There was no "run up" to top speed... It was immediate.

So... At this point. I'm thinking that the transmission has bit the dust... Is there anything that I am missing on this? Motive force is provided by the (apparently) properly functioning motor. Pump is not restricted or bound up in any way. But when the pump is removed and the motor is still not turning when voltage is applied, that would leave only a locked up transmission to cause the motor to not turn, wouldn't it?

I really appreciate all of you folks jumping in here to help... I understand circuits very well and build radios as a hobby, but the deep mechanical bottom end of a washing machine is something new. I have no problem is putting in a new transmission... But we all know that the transmission is one of the more expensive parts. If there is something I'm missing that would be a cheaper repair please don't hesitate to point it out.

THANKS AGAIN!
Mike

[kdog]

Try turning the coupling Fingers on the Transmission input shaft, you should be able to turn it freely in one direction (agitate) and in the other direction (spin) it will spin for a bit until the collar begins to turn the clutch against spring pressure of the brake. If shaft is locked up, it's a Tranny

http://www.repaircli...er=110.28972890

 

[BearCreekMike]

Try turning the coupling Fingers on the Transmission input shaft, you should be able to turn it freely in one direction (agitate) and in the other direction (spin) it will spin for a bit until the collar begins to turn the clutch against spring pressure of the brake. If shaft is locked up, it's a Tranny

Turning the fingers counter-clockwise, it spins freely. Turning them clockwise, I get resistance and the tub spins (looking down on it from the top) clockwise. Now, when I do get movement from turning the coupling fingers clockwise, it is with what I would judge to be several pounds worth of resistance. I can turn it, but I'm pushing hard with my fingers and on the last attempt noticed that I was clinching my teeth as well. Seems like a lot of resistance for what should be a relatively easy load... The tub should be rolling resistance, but trying to get it to turn via the coupling is like trying to push a 10 pound sack of sugar across the asphalt with only one finger.

Does this sound normal?

I'm going to have to order a part soon, as I really don't care for going to the laundromat, and the old trick of turning the boxers inside out to get by for a couple of days doesn't sit well with the Mrs.

[kdog]

Yes that sounds normal as turning it to spin by hand will always be pushing against spring pressure of the brake. Any way you can take a current reading of the motor with an ampclamp while it's running ? Could be a weak motor

[RegUS_PatOff]

Have you tried the Washer in all of the Speed (Cycle) Switch settings ?
Sometimes when that Switch goes bad, it selects (2) Motor speeds at the same time
Tech Sheet - 3951186.pdf

[BearCreekMike]

Yes that sounds normal as turning it to spin by hand will always be pushing against spring pressure of the brake. Any way you can take a current reading of the motor with an ampclamp while it's running ? Could be a weak motor

I have a clampmeter... Will have to retrieve it from my shop, though. We'll find out what amperage it's running...

[BearCreekMike]

Have you tried the Washer in all of the Speed (Cycle) Switch settings ?
Sometimes when that Switch goes bad, it selects (2) Motor speeds at the same time
Tech Sheet - 3951186.pdf

Have run all speeds, individually... No issues noted... Different speed noted for each position of the switch.

[kdog]

If you run the motor awhile, is it noisy and does it get hot ?