12 replies to this topic

[Comstock_Services]

On both of these washers the mushroom vavle, check valve, is present in the vent, WH2277HW is production of 09 if i read it right. I observed oversuds condition, and ASSUMED that that was what was causing the leak. Through diagnostics, the unit checks good for everything but recirculate. I.E. I couln't tell if it was moving the water or not, in the given portion of the test cycle. I'm open for any suggestions, and I proably should have searched before posting this thread, Thanks in Advance.

More side notes, the customer is using powdered, tide, non HE, I'm going to call this in shortly as a denial of coverage, unless some wisdom can be shown to me. I know that the vent is designed, to leak, during heavy suds, and mostly to help the machine, during drain.

Edited by Comstock_Services, 03 January 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[john63]

<<<I observed oversuds condition, and ASSUMED that that was what was causing the leak.>>>

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Explain to the customer that---during a cycle---there should be no suds visible at all (zip/zero).

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<<<Through diagnostics, the unit checks good for everything but recirculate. I.E. I couln't tell if it was moving the water or not, in the given portion of the test cycle.>>>

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During a test of the RECIRCULATION MOTOR function---water should be seen cascading down the door glass from a nozzle within the rubber door gasket---located at the top (12 o'clock on the gasket).
The nozzle can become plugged/restricted by a clump of lint.
Use your finger---and grasp the blockage to clear the nozzle. The plastic nozzle is virtually unbreakable and can be forced apart/stretched to get a grip on the lint build-up.

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<<<the customer is using powdered, tide, non HE>>>

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Advise the customer---that using non-HE type detergent will cause:

1) Musty Odor
2) L-o-n-g Cycle Run Time (duration)---longer than the time displayed on the control panel
3) Poor Wash Results (especially whites)---Dingy whites
4) Slower Spin Speed (wetter laundry at the end of the cycle)---dryer needs longer run time to dry laundry.
5) Intermittent Water Leaks from behind the washer (air vent)
6) Damaged Hall Effect Sensor (on models built prior to 2008)---this shows as an "LE" error that cannot be "reset" or "cleared"
7) "LE" Suds Error (can be cleared from MAIN BOARD when washer is unplugged for 30 seconds)

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<<<I know that the vent is designed, to leak, during heavy suds, and mostly to help the machine, during drain.>>>

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The vent at the rear of the washer is only designed/intended to allow air movement within the tub for laundry tumbling---as well as to permit opening and closing the door without suction-effect.
Suds was not intended to be "evacuated" or "vented" through this outlet.
All LG washers *do* have a software program known as SUDS KILL MODE---this is triggered (or enabled) when the MAIN BOARD detects the presence of suds through the HALL EFFECT SENSOR during the **RINSE** portion of a cycle.
During SUD KILL MODE--- the display clock will **stall** while the washer enables a set of actions designed to reduce (but almost never completely) the amount of suds.
SUDS KILL MODE usually runs for approximately 20 to 30 minutes---before the display "clock" resumes counting downward.

Also explain to the customer that the ***CORRECT*** amount of "HE" detergent that should be used depends on the ***potency*** of the detergent...

HE (2) Tablespoons Per Wash Load (regardless of load size)

HE 2X (double concentrated) : (1) Tablespoon

HE 3X (triple concentrated): (1) Teaspoon

Consumers/customers often express surprise that the ***INSTRUCTIONS*** on the bottle/box of detergent are ***INCORRECT***.
In most cases---reading a product label (instructions) IS THE CORRECT THING TO DO.
In this case---not so.
The soap & detergent industry (with the exception of the Shaklee Corporation) isn't interested in proper front load washer function/clean laundry----it's all about profit.
Most consumers never think that the root cause of their washer problem(s) are connected to (or caused ) by the detergent.

I'd print this post and give a copy to *your* customer

Edited by john63, 04 January 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Comstock_Services]

Thanks John, I apprecieate, what you are telling me. I know this has been discussed many times, and thank you for your response, again. I forgot to look at the little white deal at the top of the tub boot, sorry its been a while. I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the vent, it has a check valve to stop fluid, what else may be causing the vent to leak?

[john63]

<<< I know this has been discussed many times>>>

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And it will be discussed many,many more times---until---at least LG revises their *owner manuals*.

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<<< it has a check valve to stop fluid, what else may be causing the vent to leak?>>>


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The MUSHROOM VALVE at the rear of the tub will *rise upward* from air-draft created by the spinning tub---preventing splatter/water coming off the wet laundry---from leaking through the rear vent.
Suds can still get by---and is the only cause of a leak at the rear vent (unless the MUSHROOM VALVE is missing altogether).

The MUSHROOM VALVE at the end of the DISPENSER HOSE---performs the same function EXCEPT---in the seated position (no spin) it must allow water/detergent/bleach/softener to enter the tub assembly.
If THAT valve becomes sticky and sticks to the rubber bellows-type hose---a leak can occur from the DISPENSER ASSY (fairly rare).

Once all of this is understood---the most daunting challenge for a servicer---is to explain all of this in layman's terms to customers/owners.
It doesn't help at all that---the owner manual explains none of this---that the detergent instructions *do* specify excessive amounts of detergent (dosage) or that LGs own Customer Service Representatives (the folks that handle consumer calls) are not fully aware of the magnitude/importance of using the correct type/amount of "HE" detergent---and what the symptoms are (difficult to believe as well).

Asking a customer to **trust you** with this information can be a TALL order.

The best method for sceptics seems to be...

"Try the *correct* dosage for a week---prove me wrong (or an idiot)."

Feedback (our office calling the customer) shows that...

1) Laundry is cleaner (especially whites)

2) Annoying "LE" errors *stop* occurring

3) Cycle run time is consistent with time displayed

4) Intermittent leaks--end.

5) After a TUB CLEAN CYCLE with TIDE WASHING MACHINE CLEANER---musty odor is gone and remains so.

6) Heavier laundry loads (towels/denims) are spin-dried more consistently---before being added to the dryer.

Edited by john63, 03 January 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[jhredman]

<<<<<The MUSHROOM VALVE at the end of the DISPENSER HOSE---performs the same function EXCEPT---in the seated position (no spin) it must allow water/detergent/bleach/softener to enter the tub assembly.

 

If THAT valve becomes sticky and sticks to the rubber bellows-type hose---a leak can occur from the DISPENSER ASSY (fairly rare).>>>>>>

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I have an LG WM2487HRMA washer that is leaking from the dispenser.   I assumed that it was bad tub seals and bearings causing the leak, but when I disassembled the washer, I could not find any evidence of leaking from the bearings or the outer tub assembly.

 

I did not replace the bearings and seals.  I got overwhelmed and did not want break something I did not have on hand to replace.  ie shock hinges, spring clips?

 

The leaking did stop for about 5 days after I had a look in the washer and cleaned the dispenser and seals around the dispenser.  It started leaking again today and while on a delicate cycle.  I do not think that the build up I cleaned out could have reformed in that short of a time frame.  

 

The washer is five years old, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

 

[applianceman97]

LG rep at ASTI mentioned a few problems with the mushroom valve getting sticky from detergent and causing the leak stated above. He  he has seen it quite a few times. With them using powder non he soap, i  bet that its your problem. Just what i heard at ASTI. sorry i cant be more help.

[jhredman]

Thanks for the reply.  As far as I know we have used HE detergent(powder and liquid).  About a year ago we got a sample of the pod detergent and used those.  I unknowingly put one in the detergent dispenser, but did not notice any adverse affects other than my wife getting really hot over the incident. 

[john63]

<<<I have an LG WM2487HRMA washer that is leaking from the dispenser.>>>

 

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Large leak (water gushing out) ?

 

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<<<About a year ago we got a sample of the pod detergent and used those.  I unknowingly put one in the detergent dispenser>>>

 

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This will cause leaking from the dispenser---although---not from a single dose.

 

If water is pouring out of the dispenser---replace the MUSHROOM VALVE (4769ER4002A)

 

If the dome on the Mushroom Valve (float) has become sticky/tacky---it can fail to fall/seat in the down position and cause fill water to leak from the dispenser assy(flood condition).

 

A *rare* failure/fault :)

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[jhredman]

It is not the flood condition. The washer is still functioning and running through cycles, just making a mess.  I notice a good sized puddle on the floor and the left side of the washer and water trial that leads up to the dispenser.

I am sure that water is settling on the base top as well but I assume it is drying fairly quickly.

 

I looked at the replacement part.  Do you have to remove the tub in order to replace?   I do not see a snap lock that would keep it in place.

[john63]

<<<I notice a good sized puddle on the floor and the left side of the washer and water trial that leads up to the dispenser.>>>

 

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Significant enough---to be more than a trace or small amount of water.

 

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<<<I looked at the replacement part.  Do you have to remove the tub in order to replace?   I do not see a snap lock that would keep it in place.>>>

 

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Unplug washer

 

Remove the top cover of the washer

 

Locate the black hose which routes/runs from the rear of the plastic dispenser housing---to the top of the tub.

 

Loosen clamp on the hose at the top of the tub and pull off hose.

 

You'll see the original Mushroom Valve---lift it out---and drop in new valve.

 

Inspect the black hose with a good/bright flashlight---check for debris/obstruction that may restrict/slow the flow of water trying to enter the tub.

 

Re-assemble/test washer

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[jhredman]

Thanks for the help.  I will order the part and give it a try.

[certified tech group 51]

Did a washer located at a animal vet. clinic.....Complaint was "water leaking onto the floor, left side and front of the machine ".....Filled the washer and water started to fill, some water was run onto the glass ( normal) but there was dog hair in between the seal and the glass, causing the water leak down the front...........Told the customer to keep the glass wiped down in between loads......Plus I told them I do not think that is the cause of the water leak at the left front ( I had squeezed in the service call )..................Any way to make this short story longer, they called back, " Still leaking"......Went back, started a cycle and removed the top and watched.............half way thru the first wash, water started to drip from the front left side, behind the front panel to the side panel............, I stopped the unit, pulled the dispenser assy. found no cracks or miss-alignment of any thing...Nothing from the door gasket inside........reassembled every thing... Hit Cancel/drain ...started a new cycle...........got out the trusty flash light and I glued my eyes to the dispenser drawer assy.............After a fill, I saw a  very small  trickle of water come from the under side of the drawer, run out of the dispenser, drop down behind the front panel and run down the inside....It was running down inside of the formed metal on the left, could not get your fingers in the long slot to feel for wetness......................The machine was level and the  base of the dispenser was level.......So I raised the front of the machine about a 1/4 of an inch......Leak stopped..........No unusual spray from the fill holes in the dispenser, so I figured water was seeking its own level.....Water then ran to the rear of the dispenser trough......I checked with the customer a few days later.." No leaks " they said.....Bill was sent....

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Good find, CTG!  Domo for passing that tip along.