19 replies to this topic

[jaguarjoe]

Hi guys, my name is Joe, my first posting here, this is great site. I was an avid DIY'er (after my Dad) until I ran into cancer problems. The cancer is gone but the after effects last forever. What used to take a few hours now stretches out to a day.

Anyhow, I have a 2 stage, variable speed furnace that only has a single stage plain Jane thermostat. I've been told by a few people that I am wasting the benefit of the furnace because of this. A Carrier thermostat for this furnace is about $300-350. I can't afford that. Is there something cheaper that will do almost the same thing?

Is there a booklet or website that explains in detail how this furnace works? Most of what I find are sales brochures or installation instructions.

Thanks,

Joe

[jumptrout]

I use the Honeywell thermostats for all installations and repairs.
The Honeywell 5320 will run your 2 stage system.
In fact any 2 heat 2 cool thermostat will work.

P.S. Carrier does not make thermostats. They put their logo on readily available thermostats.

Edited by jumptrout, 27 February 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Daveb1972]

Im also a fan of the honeywell, I like the pro 6000, But there are some other details you will need to get the most out of the system. 1st you need more than 2 wires to use the thermostat as the 2nd stage controler, and second you'll need to change the setting on the control board at the furnace to make the thermostat the controling unit. I am pressed for time tody, but I can give you the whole store for this in the next couple of days if you arent in a hurry to do it today......

[Shootist]

You may not need a two stage thermostat to operate your two stage furnace. The Ruud furnaces I sell will automatically switch stages depending on which terminal you connect the white wire. I can't remember at this moment the exact terminal (either W or W2) but I think that if you hook the white wire to "W" the furnace will always come on at low stage and automatically ramp up to high stage if the thermostat isn't satisfied within 12 minutes.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

The only two stage furnace I've ever worked on was a Trane xl80 series, the way to wire it to operate with a single stage standard t-stat was to connect the white t-stat wire to W and then jumper W to W1, (I just stripped the end of the white wire about an inch and passed it across W & W1 to connect and make the jumper all in one).

If wired this way when the furnace first comes on it is in the low stage and in 10 minutes will kick up to the high stage.

[jaguarjoe]

I had a Carrier vendor come out and take a look. He said that once again, a 1 stage t-stat takes away the advantage of the Infinity furnace. He wanted $450 to install the Infinity jobbie. I will go to H-D and buy a Honeywell. They're anywhere from $30 to $100. He also commented on the crappy job the installers did and that he doubted that they were authorized dealers.

Where can I learn how that furnace runs? Are there any books? Carrier seems to be pretty tight lipped.

[Daveb1972]

^{Let me get and post the carrier manual....give me a min....}

[Daveb1972]

carrier site is down for maintenance. Heres the thing, all of the literature out there will refer to the IOM manual (Instalation, Owners Maintenance), and its just a matter of interperating it. The new carrier infinity series is designed to interface with the infinity thermostat to open a whole new set of features. While they are cool, if you are using it for heat only, and/or ac only, without humidifiers and such, i wouldnt worry too much. This furnace will operate just fine as a multi stage, variable speed unit with a standard thermostat, assuming it is set up correctly. You can upgrade to a fancier thermostat and get slightly better performance, or if you really want the bells and whistles, e-bay the infinity stat, and I'll set up a phone consult with you and help to talk you through it. Nothing to stress over! Service techs get LARGE spiffs to sell the upgraded thermostats. My office has been on the Nest thermostat beta sales program (another fancy thermostat). The most important thing is to know the following information:

How many conductors are currently installed to the thermostat (number of wires and their awg) most ac/heat have 18awg 5 wire.

what type of system? ac only, heat only, single stage heat, single stage ac, humidifier, etc...

was an OD temp sensor installed?

is the thermostat wire in good shape

what kind of budget do you have for this? ( i dont need this answer, but it should be in your mind..)

I am happy to coach you in this, and electricat in HVAC is my specialty, I am also gifted on teaching remotely, but best by phone, or direct interactive. I am on vacation this week, but expect to be sporaticly availible, and I can set up a phone consult for an evening next week.

Feel free to diret message, or post questions, and Ill try to keep tabs this week, or I can call you next week and help you figure out the best setup for you. (not a sales call, I live in NY and prommiss not to try to sell you anything, just advise.)

[Daveb1972]

http://www.residenti.../infinity.shtml

infinity brocure is here

[jumptrout]

Is this a matched system with a new condensing unit?
If so,is the condenser 2 stage cooling?

[jb8103]

You may not need a two stage thermostat to operate your two stage furnace. The Ruud furnaces I sell will automatically switch stages depending on which terminal you connect the white wire. I can't remember at this moment the exact terminal (either W or W2) but I think that if you hook the white wire to "W" the furnace will always come on at low stage and automatically ramp up to high stage if the thermostat isn't satisfied within 12 minutes.

That's the way I see it. You've already got one computer in the furnace. That's bad enough.

[jumptrout]

With the 2 stage thermostat W controls low heat W2 controls 2nd stage Hi heat.
If you have a 2 stage condenser also you would use Y and Y2.
If not 2 stage condenser just use Y.

[jaguarjoe]

carrier site is down for maintenance. Heres the thing, all of the literature out there will refer to the IOM manual (Instalation, Owners Maintenance), and its just a matter of interperating it. The new carrier infinity series is designed to interface with the infinity thermostat to open a whole new set of features. While they are cool, if you are using it for heat only, and/or ac only, without humidifiers and such, i wouldnt worry too much. This furnace will operate just fine as a multi stage, variable speed unit with a standard thermostat, assuming it is set up correctly. You can upgrade to a fancier thermostat and get slightly better performance, or if you really want the bells and whistles, e-bay the infinity stat, and I'll set up a phone consult with you and help to talk you through it. Nothing to stress over! Service techs get LARGE spiffs to sell the upgraded thermostats. My office has been on the Nest thermostat beta sales program (another fancy thermostat). The most important thing is to know the following information:

How many conductors are currently installed to the thermostat (number of wires and their awg) most ac/heat have 18awg 5 wire.

what type of system? ac only, heat only, single stage heat, single stage ac, humidifier, etc...

was an OD temp sensor installed?

is the thermostat wire in good shape

what kind of budget do you have for this? ( i dont need this answer, but it should be in your mind..)

I am happy to coach you in this, and electricat in HVAC is my specialty, I am also gifted on teaching remotely, but best by phone, or direct interactive. I am on vacation this week, but expect to be sporaticly availible, and I can set up a phone consult for an evening next week.

Feel free to diret message, or post questions, and Ill try to keep tabs this week, or I can call you next week and help you figure out the best setup for you. (not a sales call, I live in NY and prommiss not to try to sell you anything, just advise.)

The t-stat will be relocated to more central location, so all of the wire will be new. I can buy whatever is required.
Its 2 stage heat, not sure about the new 13 seer Carrier A/C, but I think it's single stage.
The existing no name single stage t-stat is in excellent condition and works well.
No humidifer and no plan/desire to add one.
No OD sensor, but easily added.
Current budget is in the negative.

Thank you for that generous offer to talk me through this. Over the years, I've worked on many furnaces and installed a couple too, but I never battled with anything as complex (or expensive) as this one. Like my buddy says, "I don't want to make the wrong mistake."

[Daveb1972]

no problem, when did you want to talk about it? can you send me a number, and I can call this weekend....(send number as a PM)

[RegUS_PatOff]

....(send number as a PM)

grasshoppers can't send or receive PM's

[Daveb1972]

oh...what shall we do then? am I allowed to offer my email address?

[Shootist]

Don't waste your money on a new thermostat. I'm sure there are some suckers out there that would spend $300-500 on a expensive thermostat just for their 2-stage furnace. You don't have to be one of them.
You should ask these clowns trying to sell the thermostats if that furnace has the capability to automatically ramp up to high stage after a certain amount of time (10-15 minutes) with a standard thermostat. Then ask them to justify the need for a 2-stage thermostat and how that is better. I had a 2 stage furnace in my home (with single stage cooling) and replaced the entire system for a new 2 stage cooling and heating sytem that Ruud gave me to "test drive". Now the 2 heat stages are controlled by the stat and I don't like it as well as the auto-ramp method. It seems to run far longer on first stage heat before it will ramp up than before.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

oh...what shall we do then? am I allowed to offer my email address?

Couple ways to go:

- you guys could meet in the chat room for a live exchange

- grasshopper can post his email address, IM handle, fax number, whatever works works for you and will facilitate the info exchange.

- you could post a download link for him to download the file (will need to uploaded somewhere first, though)

Just because Grasshoppers can't use the PM system doesn't mean you guys can't get together and talk, even about private consulting for a fee! The Samurai is all about voluntary association!

[Daveb1972]

Don't waste your money on a new thermostat. I'm sure there are some suckers out there that would spend $300-500 on a expensive thermostat just for their 2-stage furnace. You don't have to be one of them.
You should ask these clowns trying to sell the thermostats if that furnace has the capability to automatically ramp up to high stage after a certain amount of time (10-15 minutes) with a standard thermostat. Then ask them to justify the need for a 2-stage thermostat and how that is better. I had a 2 stage furnace in my home (with single stage cooling) and replaced the entire system for a new 2 stage cooling and heating sytem that Ruud gave me to "test drive". Now the 2 heat stages are controlled by the stat and I don't like it as well as the auto-ramp method. It seems to run far longer on first stage heat before it will ramp up than before.

While this is mostly true....the board MUST be set up right or no second stage. I've seen LOTS left in single stage operation from install waiting for the W2 contacts to close because of a lazy, or poorly educated installer.

[Shootist]

I was commenting on one of my personal systems and I can assure you that my observations are 100% FACT.

I too have gone behind idiot competitors not setting furnace dip switches for proper two stage operation. I've seen others install a 2 stage condensing unit (Carrier dealer) with a standard, single-stage gas furnace. I've seen others where the thermostat was wired for two stage operation but the thermostat menu settings were still set for single-stage operation. Thank god all the two stage systems I sell are now serial communicating. No more dip switches and no more having to go behind the installers and double checking those settings.