10 replies to this topic

[Heel Hook]

Hello Esteemed Colleagues,

Apologies if this has been posted before. I have a Kenmore (Whirlpool) top load washer (Mod. # 110.23822100) that has a difficult time with the Rinse cycle.

My understanding of the cycles is thus:

1) Water fills tub
2) Agitation of items in tub
3) Rinse cycle begins by water pump draining water and tub spinning to wring out water (simultaneously)
4) The brake applies
5) Rinse continues by spin beginning again as water pours over the spinning laundry
6) Brake applies
7) 2nd Rinse cycle begins by repeating the previous 6 steps, though the final spin is a tad longer than the previous spins

Okay. My washer has a problem with 3 and 5. The water pump will drain (on step 3), but the tub won't spin or it will try to start but just jerk for less than a second and stop.

I can get it to spin by clicking the lid switch a couple of times either with a screwdriver or knife (if the lid is open) or just by opening and closing the lid.

On the spin after the braking, I may have to click the switch again. Also, if part of the sequence is interrupted, the water may not pour during step 5.

I can turn straight to the cycle labeled "Spin" and the machine has no problem popping into the high revolutions for the high speed spin cycle. The issue seems to be starting a spin and slowly accelerating.

I have replaced the timer and the lid switch. Still no joy. What may I be missing?

Thank you for your time and attention,

Heel Hook

[jumptrout]

Sounds like a sticking brake on the transmission shaft.
Part number: AP3094538

Edited by jumptrout, 07 March 2012 - 06:52 AM.

[DADoESTX]

To clarify, step 3 (drain) should not include spinning. The first batch of direct-drive machines produced in the early 1980s did a spin-drain ... but the transmission was redesigned to provide a neutral drain (NO spinning during drain) on all specimens produced from that point onward. Your machine should do a neutral drain, assuming it does not date from the early 1980s.

The operating sequence of neutral drain:
1) Agitation (of at least a couple minutes) during the wash (or deep rinse) presets the neutral drain mechanism in the transmission so that the next time the motor stops and restarts in the reverse direction, the transmission shifts to neutral (no agitation or spin).
2) Per normal cycle sequence, the motor pauses briefly after agitation, then restarts in reverse to drain the water.
3) After drain (2 to 4 mins depending on the model), the motor pauses and restarts again in the reverse direction, which releases the neutral drain mechanism and the transmission shifts to spin.

Jiggering the lid switch or opening/closing the lid during the #3 drain sequence has the same effect as a programmed pause in the timer, triggering spin to begin at that point.

If you don't jigger the switch or open/close the lid, does spin always commence after the 2nd timer pause? If so, then you don't have a problem. If not, then you do have a problem.

[RegUS_PatOff]

... I have replaced the timer

with a new one ?
part number ?

[Heel Hook]

Sorry for the delay in response to responses (I had to be out of town). Thanks for the responses. So.. onto addressing the responses.
 

with a new one ?
part number ?

Both parts are new. The timer is part # 661649... or this guy.




The lid switch is part # 3949238 or it looks like this guy.



I got my new lid switch from the local Sears parts store. I'm pretty sure I didn't need it as the other one seemed to work fine and I had replaced it about 19 months ago. It was a Hail Mary, because I just really wanted to fix the machine, not buy a new one yet. I bought the switch just to rule it out. Wish I had bought it from Repair Clinic.

[Heel Hook]

To clarify, step 3 (drain) should not include spinning. The first batch of direct-drive machines produced in the early 1980s did a spin-drain ... but the transmission was redesigned to provide a neutral drain (NO spinning during drain) on all specimens produced from that point onward. Your machine should do a neutral drain, assuming it does not date from the early 1980s.

I bought this washer in 2002.

The operating sequence of neutral drain:
1) Agitation (of at least a couple minutes) during the wash (or deep rinse) presets the neutral drain mechanism in the transmission so that the next time the motor stops and restarts in the reverse direction, the transmission shifts to neutral (no agitation or spin).
2) Per normal cycle sequence, the motor pauses briefly after agitation, then restarts in reverse to drain the water.
3) After drain (2 to 4 mins depending on the model), the motor pauses and restarts again in the reverse direction, which releases the neutral drain mechanism and the transmission shifts to spin.

Jiggering the lid switch or opening/closing the lid during the #3 drain sequence has the same effect as a programmed pause in the timer, triggering spin to begin at that point.

If you don't jigger the switch or open/close the lid, does spin always commence after the 2nd timer pause? If so, then you don't have a problem. If not, then you do have a problem.

With the new timer, after agitation, the first "neutral" spin gets the motor running and the tub just barely begins to move (then stops and I hear a noise... the break engaging?) as the water pump drains the tub.

After a while (and complete drainage), the motor "pauses", for lack of a better word, then I think I hear a different noise (sounds like the motor switching into first gear and the break disengaging) and the tub spins, the water pump continues to drain and the spayer dumps water as the tub begins to pick up speed. This happens both after the intial agitation in the "wash" cycle and the second agtiation in the Rinse cycle. (Both cycles are pretty much the same in behavior. There are just slight variances in duration of spins, agitation, etc.).

The behavior is now consistent with what I've outlined above. The old timer would skip all kinds of steps and I would need to physcially shake the dial to get the machine to move onto the next part of the cycle and jigger the switch.

So what's currently happening is really the desired behavior? It seems so weird for the motor to be on while the pump is draining, then spin only when the drainage is complete... it seems like a waste of energy.

[Heel Hook]

Sounds like a sticking brake on the transmission shaft.

What, in particular, leads you to think this could be a sticking brake?

[Heel Hook]

Greetings Masters, Apprentices, and Over-all General Clever Folk,

I've gotten some responses to my intial query. They have all been very helpful. I guess I just have one question at this point. Is my machine now fixed?

To clarify... is my 2002 Whirlpool Mod. # 110.23822100 supposed to have a "neutral" drain cycle?

By "nuetral" I mean the description that DADoESTX provided. If I understand this corretcly, after agitation, my machine should engage the motor, but not spin, while the inner tub drains for several minutes. Then the inner tub should begin to spin, slowly accelarating to full speed. During the acceleration, some water should pour over the laundry in the inner tub whilst spinning. And this behavior should be the same for the rinse in the "wash" cycle as well as the "Rinse" cycle.

Is that correct?

Sorry that I'm confused. It just seems so weird to have the motor engaged for so long before the spin actually begins. I've looked all over online to find out if this is the desire behavior for my machine, but all I can find is that Whirlpool washers can have a spinning drain cycle and a non-spinning drain cycle (to keep the outer tub from overfilling during the drain), but Whirlpool machines vary.

Any further help would be Supremely Appreciated.

Arigato gozaimasu,

Heel Hook prostrates himself before the Wisdom of the Masters

[RegUS_PatOff]

Whirlpool Neutral Drain since 1982

[kdog]

Machine operation you describe is normal - spin direction without spinning is the "drain" portion of the cycle

[Heel Hook]

Thank the Gods!!! This machine has been driving me nuts. What a relief.

Thank you RegUS_PatOff! Thank you kdog! Many gracious thanks Samurai Appliance Repair Man!

度主ありがとうございます!

Ancient Japanese Proverb (not the Japanese above): 'Tis better to donate to the Bushido Brew Fund than pay to Bissel my carpet clean from The Samurai's steaming entrails!