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Smoke on the water, and fire in disguise!

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41 replies to this topic

#1 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

AMANA clotheswasher
Model # ALW880QAW
Serial # S 0003187460
My 10-11 year old AMANA clothes washer began smoking heavily during an unknown cycle (but believed to have been a spin cycle). Pulled cord and grayish whitish smoke was nasty and smelly. Upon removal of front panel I observed, upon starting on final rinse, the unit spun out remaining small amount of water and then several clicks and as the bottom pulley moved to engage the freely slipping belt, I heard a rather rapid succession of clicks followed by a tension against the belt but only smoke at the contact point. Tried twice, but same results.
Belt is original and appears glazed but why is it not rotating. The clutch mechanism may or may not be working properly, I don’t know…that’s why I’m here. What should I do? No, really what should I do?
The milking stool has a 1” crack for about 3 years, I have a new one, but that’s a job for “My repairman from TOKYO… he’s so good to me”. (Again, with apologies to DEEP PURPLE)



Dōmo arigatōgozaimashita,
Mr. Lee Fix

Edited by Mr. Lee Fix, 23 July 2012 - 12:52 PM.


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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

post YouTube video ?
.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#3 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:27 PM

Awesome topic title! :rocker:

Could be something jamming the pump causing the belt to burn ==> http://www.repaircli...umber=ALW880QAW

Drain-Pump-27001233-00878946.jpg

Or a bad tub seal and bearing ==> http://www.repaircli...umber=ALW880QAW

Tub-Seal-and-Bearing-Kit-21002237-010253


Easiest test is to remove the belt and see if the pump pulley turns freely by hand.

In either event, you'll also need to replace the belt 'cuz that's what burned and caused all the smoke on the water ==> http://www.repaircli...umber=ALW880QAW

Drive-Belt-27001006-00558194.jpg



#4 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:10 AM

Not going to be something jammed in the pump causing a belt to burn on this one. Pump is directly connected to the motor just like a Whirlpool direct drive. If something were jammed in the pump the motor wouldn't be able to turn to burn the belt.

I would be more inclined to think it has something to do with the cracked milk stool finally letting things bind up so transmission can't turn in spin so belt burns up.
William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#5 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:52 AM

Absolutely correct! I've posted a rather boring video (link below), but the machine fills, agitates for washing, pumps out the water, but cannot spin the load and that is when the belt smokes. The motor turns as does the belt but the idler wheel doesn't budge. What say the crowd? If the milking stool needs replacing, just how big an undertaking (it is dead, after all) is it? I'm more than handy, but certainly not skilled in this venture and do not have the specialized implements of destruction commonly found in the arsenals of the venerable Samurai. Do I need to hire Ronin? Godzilla? Your help is appreciated...especially as the laundry is piling up.
Thank you,
Mr. Lee Fix





#6 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:39 AM

All that and no detailed view of the cracked milkstool area????

Have you removed the belt from the main transmission pulley and tried to turn just the transmission pulley by hand.

Turn it one way and it should turn real easy and the agitator should go back and forth, try the other way for spin and watch the brake pak just above the pulley area and make sure the pulley ramps up and opens the brake pak and then keep turning with one hand and if transmission isn't turning try to give it help turning with the other hand while still turning the transmission pulley. Can you get the transmission to turn at all when doing this?

Do you have any signs of splatter on the inside of the case just at the level of the bottom of the other tub? If so then you have a leaking seal and the bearing is probably locking up but I still believe the broken milkstool is putting the lower and upper bearings in a bind causing it to not turn.

A bad helix on the pulley could be causing this also. If the helix ramp on the pulley and the other half has worn down and the brake pak isn't opening then the brakes won't release and you will get this same problem.
William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#7 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:15 AM

For some unknown reason I can't access the picture of the milk stool that I previously posted in Jan. 2011. I was able to pull old posts up at first, but when i went to do it again I couldn't get anything other than this post and one about removing the agitator on a like unit. Als0, attempts at sending an inquiry to the Grand Wazooki were met with the dreaded "no such URL message". Strange things are happening. I'll take more pictures, etc., but if anyone has a suggestion/solution please make yourself heard,

Thank you very much,
Mr. Lee Fix

#8 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

For some unknown reason I can't access the picture of the milk stool that I previously posted in Jan. 2011.

http://appliantology...-milking-stool/

Posted Image
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one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
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RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#9 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:14 PM

As the attached pictures will show (that is, if I can ever get the pictures uploaded), there is a crack in the milk stool, and some splatter on the inside of the housing just at and below the bottom of the tub. Hey, thanks for the picture RegUS_PATOff!! Help!

Mr. Lee Fix

#10 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:07 AM

Too localized to the crack and unable to tell were on the milkstool the crack is from that picture to tell if maybe that would be the cause of the binding.

See if you can get the transmission to turn by hand when turning the pulley to release the brakes.

Also some pictures of the amount of splatter on the inside of the cabinet.
William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#11 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:54 AM

http://s1268.photobu...577/Minolta101/
This is the link for pictures of the unit. I hope these help.

Mr. Lee Fix

#12 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:50 PM

I cut off the belt and was able to get the transmission to turn without any difficulty and the agitator turned. When I reversed direction, the Helix looked great, the pulley ramped up, but I couldn't get it to budge even with 2 hands (it couldn't be more awkward) and a good breakfast. The picture link (copied below) shows the milk stool break in #5 and in #1 the break is just out of view towards the bottom of the photo. The break ends about 3/4" in length and does not seperate the affected stool support entirely. The basket/drum seems to lean to the left (the affected side).
Photo #5 also shows the general accumulation of crudzola overthe 11 years. Is the brake pak jammed or what? I have a new milk stool, but just how traumatic is pulling this apart and pressing on the bearing, etc. Nephew has auto shop with press so that's good, but talk to me...where do I go next?
Thank you for your help in this undertaking...let's just hope completing the task dooes't involve a burial in the appliance graveyard.

Mr. Lee Fix
http://s1268.photobu...577/Minolta101/

#13 Scottthewolf

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:41 PM

All that black splatter shows you have a worn tub bearing and seal. Since the tools to replace the bearing and seal are no longer available, it's time to send this machine to the appliance graveyard, especially with the cracked milkstool. the price of the parts will eat you alive.
Scott Wolf

#14 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:35 PM

Thank you my lupine member of the academy. I understand the worn bearing and seal, but I already have a BRAND NEW IN THE BOX Milk Stool. Exactly what is involved, both labor wise and in the way of "Specialty Tools" to replace the bearing and seal. I have access to a 10 ton press if need be, and if it's very involved, then I'll pull it apart and bring it somewhere to have the bearing installed. The machine is in excellent condition otherwise and looks only 2 years old - no dents, no rust and NICE stainless steel ((I even have the matching dryer....had 'em since birth and don't want to seperate them now!). What are the tools and are they a pre-requisite for this job or are there otrher industry tools to do the job? Anyone have any thoughts?

Thank you

#15 Scottthewolf

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:50 PM

About 2 to 3 hours of labor, removing the agitator, the transmission hub, and the tub nut is going to be really hard without the proper tools.

If I had a customer who wanted this job done, I would charge them $400 for parts and labor.

Edited by Scottthewolf, 26 July 2012 - 11:51 PM.

Scott Wolf

#16 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:46 AM

here's a few tools to think about

Spanner Nut Wrench http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/483387

 


Spring Removal Tool  http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/510687

 


Drive Bell Seal Tool  http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/472425

 


Agitator Removal Tool http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/464169

 



Tub Cover / Seal Tool  http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/468756

 


Agitator Drive Bell Removal Tool  http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/472617


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
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RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#17 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:08 AM

The agitator came off in 3 seconds with a good pull, the other parts will be a different story. Lastly, why can't I remove as much as possible and bring it, or have someone come here and remove/install the bearing. As you can see, I'm not ready to bury this otherwise nice machine along with everyone else's "It was too involved" early-demise appliances. Doing the initial labor and having the milk stool assembly should certainly help. I see, by his timely post, that RegUS_PatOff has provided a rather lengthy tool list in which I am not prepared to invest. I do however have a spring tool and the agitator comes off in 3 seconds with a healthy pull.
Anyone out there close to West Milford, NJ 07480 who would want to do the bearing install, etc., WITH MY PARTS? That could be the issue as some people don't want to do this, but I already have the key part. What say you? Anyone? I'll bring it to you. What more could you ask for (cash of course).
And thanks for everyone's help so far as this one is indeed putting me "thru the wringer".
Hoping to hear from some venerable repair person out there.

William (Mr. Lee Fix)

#18 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:13 AM

Doesn't look to me like that break in the milk stool is in a place which would cause the transmission to bind. Maybe running it with the break has caused some other breaks that you haven't noticed which is causing the binding, (I would be especially looking at the spot welds at the plate just above the brake between the legs, any of those spot welds breaking would cause a bind).

As far as the spatter goes, that is very minimal and maybe just from grease splatter from the helix and pulley and from maybe brake pad material, (It doesn't look like the splatter you would get with a badly compromised/leaking seal).

I've done this job without any of those special tools. You already have the agitator off, getting the agitator drive bell off won't be that difficult if you have a gear puller and you may find that it slides right off. As far as replacing the hub and seal kit, I used a 1 1/2" and a 2" PVC pipe to re-seat the new drive bell seal. I remove the hub nut using an old monkey wrench, (like a crescent wrench but has long straight jaws 90 degrees to the handle and is built really heavy and can take a whacking with a sledge hammer), and the gear puller to pull the hub. Removing the hub can be the most difficult part.

None of the bearings are pressed on, the new milk stool comes with a new lower bearing already installed, (I've never seen one of the lower bearings go bad). The upper bearing that goes bad when the seal leaks bolts to the outer tub with three bolts in the mounting flange that comes pre-assembled with the bearing.

You can change the milk stool without removing the inner basket/hub/transmission. Remove the motor to make it lighter and easier to handle, remove the springs and get the complete wash assembly out of the cabinet and turn upside down. After removing the drive pulley and brake assembly and the six bolts holding the milk stool to the outer tub the milk stool should slide right off. Once you have the milk stool off you should be able to turn the transmission freely if the bearing isn't locked up and the milk stool was causing the bind.

Did you watch to make sure the brake was actually opening/releasing when you turned the pulley in the spin direction?

Are you sure there's nothing stuck between the spin basket and the outer tub? You already have the agitator out, it only takes six more bolts to be removed to pull the spin basket out after you have removed the top tub cover.

Edited by Budget Appliance Repair, 27 July 2012 - 07:21 AM.

William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#19 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:25 AM

Willie,
I saw that you were reading and waited...too bad you're in California - not for you, for me. I will begin as you say. I'm starting at the brake as it feels as though it's on...really! Anything to look for or observe, as the pulley ramps up the helix but that's it? Is there a way to "diconnect" the brake to test? I'll report back as much as I'm able. Thank you very much.


William

#20 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

Nothing between the tub and basket as the old shining light test showed - clear all the way around. I can see the brake pak engage ( or so it appears) as I rotate the pulley and it ramps up, but I'm not sure exactly what I should be seeing. Perhaps the brakes are stuck, but don't they work in both directions such as when you lift the lid, or is this just a motor cut-off? Soon as I'm done troubleshooting the burner, and visiting the laundromat, I'll get back to this. At least my dryer works!
Thanks again.

William





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