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pzion

Whirlpool WTW5505SQ1

76 posts in this topic

The sound is normal - throw a load in and run the whole cycle, see if it neutral drains then

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Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now!

How can I tell when it's supposed to go into neutral drain?

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We did a regular cycle. It did a fast agitation for about 7 or 8 minutes and then a slow agitation for another 3 or 4 minutes. Then there was a pause. It then went into a slow spin and drain until most of the water was out and then a fast spin.

Is the slow spin the neutral drain or is it defective?

This is a clip of it.

http://youtu.be/LKrYYIFUT5U

Thanks for the help.

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Is the slow spin the neutral drain or is it defective?

It should not spin during drain. There's a problem with the neutral assembly. Possibly, the pawl stud has sheared off. You would need to take the gearcase apart to get to the problem. Older models did work this way and were called direct-into-spin.

Eric

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pzion,

Neutral drain is exactly that ... no agitation and no spin ... just the motor running to pump out the water.

The motor is reversible. Runs one direction for agitation, reverses for drain and spin.

The pump runs at all times, in whichever direction the motor is running. Agitate direction, it forces the water back into the tub outlet. Reverse (drain & spin) direction, the water pumps out of the tub and through the drain hose.

During agitation, the neutral drain mechanism (cams and pawls and latches and such) in the transmission presets so that when the motor next pauses briefly and restarts in the reverse direction, the tranny goes into neutral drain mode.

When drain is finished (one increment on the timer, 2 minutes), the motor pauses, the neutral drain latch mechanically releases, and the motor restarts in the same (reverse) direction to engage spin. Of course, draining also occurs to pump away the water extracted from the clothes.

The pause between agitate and drain is required both for the motor to coast to a stop before reversing, and for the neutral drain latch to engage.

The pause between drain and spin is required for the neutral drain latch to release.

The neutral drain parts in the transmission wear over time such that it may not preset during agitation, causing spin to begin immediately when the motor reverses.

Very early direct-drive machines (the first couple/three years) did not have the neutral drain feature. There was a pause between agitate and drain for the motor to coast to a stop, but spin (intentionally) started immediately upon the motor's reverse.

Edited by DADoESTX

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The only 2 reasons why they changed to a neutral drain is so all the dirt settles to the bottom of the wash tub, rather than flinging it back over the clothes and to reduce the "load" on the motor. If this machine was a belt drive and it went to direct into spin with a full tub of water, water would splash over the top of the tub, and it might even make the motor go out on overload because there is no idler pulley, clutch or motor pivoting plate to make the belt slip until all the water is out of the tub.

Another thing they could have done rather than messing with gearcase is to use an electric remote drain pump that drains the water out before the tub starts spinning like Frigidaire and GE have done for years.

Edited by Scottthewolf

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Very early direct-drive machines (the first couple/three years) did not have the neutral drain feature. There was a pause between agitate and drain for the motor to coast to a stop, but spin (intentionally) started immediately upon the motor's reverse.

Is there a way to be sure that this machine wasn't one of the early ones?

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Is there a way to be sure that this machine wasn't one of the early ones?

Whirlpool WTW5505SQ1 c.2007

and parts diagram of your Washer (above)

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I believe the only ones that were not neutral drain where the first year or two when these direct drives were first introduced in 1982 & 1983.

I've seen many that should be neutral drain and aren't, just like yours and if that is the only problem I say let it go as long as it still spins the water out of the clothes good the clutch is fine and it works just like one of the original non-neutral drain models.

It's not really that much harder on the motor but does put more wear on the clutch since it has to slip longer while it is spinning at the same time the water is draining but the clutches do hold up very well, (a number 10 flat washer put into one of the clutch lining spring cups will give a slipping clutch many more years of life).

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Is there something showing how to rebuild the transmission on this machine? There seems to have been a video on it at http://fixitnow.com/...drain-problems/ but it now says that it was removed by the user.

Edited by pzion

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I see that there is a neutral drain kit available. Is it likely that this is just a problem with the spin pawl?

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The neutral drain kit will generally always fix the problem.

It has been mentioned by someone a while back ago in this forum when this same discussion came up that the spin pawl is the part that wears out causing the neutral drain to go directly into spin instead of neutral draining properly.

Quite some time ago I ordered just a spin pawl to test this theory but have never taken the time to open a transmission up to install it and test the theory. I have no doubt that just replacing the spin pawl will correct the problem, (it's pretty much the only part of the neutral drain kit that seems to be a wear point).

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If the spin pawl was worn out, it wouldn't go into spin at all. It has nothing to do with setting neutral drain, it's only function is to rotate the spin gear. The spin pawl engages one of three bosses on the underside of the spin gear during spin. The spin gear cam keeps the spin pawl from engaging a ring gear boss during pumpout when neutral drain is set. It takes 10 revolutions of the main drive gear during agitate to set neutral drain. One of the bosses on the underside of the ring gear has a button on it that hits a contact point on the trip lever each revolution during the first few seconds of agitate, which advances the spin gear cam one tooth at a time until the trip lever engages the large cam on the spin gear cam and neutral drain is set. The latch doesn't engage until the start of the pump out cycle. The ring gear, trip lever and spin gear cam are all plastic and if worn, can prevent neutral gain from being set. Here's a pic of the underside of the ring gear showing where the button is.

Eric

spingear.jpg

Edited by fairbank56

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Think what you want, but have never had to replace the main gear to fix a neutral drain problem.

The only fix I have tried is replacing the complete neutral drain pak kit, (which doesn't include the main spin gear which also comes with a new matching pinion gear), so if the bump on the main gear was the problem replacing the neutral drain pak wouldn't have any effect.

You say it wouldn't spin if the spin pawl was bad but that isn't true. Yes, the spin pawl drives the main gear but to not be able to spin, the spin pawl would have to be physically broken or badly damaged and that isn't what happens to them, (I'm not really sure what the exact wear point is), but I believe it has something to do with the trailing end of the spin pawl that works in conjunction with the latching mechanism.

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Think what you want,

The spin pawl has nothing to do with the latch or setting neutral drain. If the trailing edge of the spin pawl was worn enough, then it would still engage the spin gear and cause spin during pumpout even though the neutral drain mechanism was set, so yes, a worn spin pawl can cause the OP's problem but not because the neutral drain mechanism isn't set. I put together this picture to make it easier for everyone to see how the neutral drain mechanism works. The images are as though you are looking down on the spin gear showing the parts underneath the spin gear. The spin gear cam mounts to the spin gear hub but freely rotates on the hub. The other parts are on the neutral plate (retainer). You can see in the third image that if the trailing edge of the spin pawl is worn down enough that the pawl could swing out enough to engage the spin gear.

Eric

NeutralDrainExplanation.jpg

Edited by fairbank56

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Think what you want, but have never had to replace the main gear to fix a neutral drain problem.

The problem here is that you are replacing parts of the neutral drain mechanism that wear but not the other part (spin gear) that also wears from friction with the neutral drain parts. If the spin gear button AND the tip of trip lever that contacts the button are worn to the point that they no longer function, just replacing one of those parts, either the spin gear or trip lever, can fix the problem. Future failure may occur sooner because you didn't replace the spin gear. With the new neutral drain kit, you are also installing a new spin gear cam which has a wear point with the spin gear hub. The spin gear cam rotates around the spin gear hub the whole time the washer is in agitate mode as well as the approx 2 minutes of pumpout (neutral drain).

Eric

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The only fix I have tried is replacing the complete neutral drain pak kit, (which doesn't include the main spin gear which also comes with a new matching pinion gear),

Found kit at online parts site that includes the spin gear. Cost was $17.86 including shipping.

Eric

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What is part# for a neutral drain kit that includes the spin gear?

The only way I have every seen the spin gear is a matched spin and pinion gear sets and generally costing over $60 for the set.

62570 spin gear only ------------------------------------------ subs to: 285362 Gear & pinion inside gearcase

63320 pinion gear includes ref#25 spin gear ------------- subs to: 285362 ' ' ' '

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Same number as everywhere else, 388253. I have found 3 web sites that sell the kit with the spin gear. One sells it for $75, one for $29.95 and one for $14.87. I have received a kit for $14.87 and it does have the spin gear. None of them come with the pinion gear.

Eric

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I have twelve sites I regularly check for parts, I'm sure one is the same one you found that kit on and it's the only one of the twelve that I use that shows the spin gear coming in that kit and I'm pretty sure P&C sales pretty much only OEM parts so I don't see how they come up with the same part# 388253 which is the standard neutral drain kit with a spin gear included.

Also don't know why Whirlpool would package a spin gear only without the matching pinion in a neutral drain kit when they only sale the spin gear and pinion gear in a supposed matched set.

You say you have physically received the 388253 neutral drain kit and it has the spin gear in the kit, did it come in the red and white packaging with the FSP Whirlpool genuine parts labels?

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You say you have physically received the 388253 neutral drain kit and it has the spin gear in the kit, did it come in the red and white packaging with the FSP Whirlpool genuine parts labels?

Yes, haven't used it yet, here's a pic. Paid $17.86 including shipping thru P&C. I verified via email before ordering that it did in fact include the spin gear.

Eric

neutraldrainkit.jpg

Edited by fairbank56

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