75 replies to this topic

[kdog]

Reason is the unit is in delicate (slow or middle speed), and the agitator has not been "loaded" enough to reset the spin pawl - that clunk you hear is pretty much normal for those

[pzion]

Here's the video with the lid open. The "clank" sounded louder in person than on the video. (I edited the video to make it shorter.)

[pzion]

Reason is the unit is in delicate (slow or middle speed), and the agitator has not been "loaded" enough to reset the spin pawl - that clunk you hear is pretty much normal for those

So it seems like this machine is ok?

[nickfixit]

He's right, it did not neutral drain.

[DADoESTX]

Let it agitate longer, 6 mins, leading into drain. There's a minimum agitate time required for the tranny's mechanism to preset itself for neutral drain when the motor pauses and restarts in reverse. It'll slip on into spin if the agitation period isn't long enough. 6 mins should be way longer than necessary, to insure neutral drain will trigger.

[kdog]

The sound is normal - throw a load in and run the whole cycle, see if it neutral drains then

[pzion]

How can I tell when it's supposed to go into neutral drain?

[pzion]

Actually -- found the answer: http://fixitnow.com/...drain-problems/

[pzion]

We did a regular cycle. It did a fast agitation for about 7 or 8 minutes and then a slow agitation for another 3 or 4 minutes. Then there was a pause. It then went into a slow spin and drain until most of the water was out and then a fast spin.

Is the slow spin the neutral drain or is it defective?

This is a clip of it.


Thanks for the help.

[fairbank56]

Is the slow spin the neutral drain or is it defective?

It should not spin during drain. There's a problem with the neutral assembly. Possibly, the pawl stud has sheared off. You would need to take the gearcase apart to get to the problem. Older models did work this way and were called direct-into-spin.

Eric

[DADoESTX]

pzion,

Neutral drain is exactly that ... no agitation and no spin ... just the motor running to pump out the water.

The motor is reversible. Runs one direction for agitation, reverses for drain and spin.

The pump runs at all times, in whichever direction the motor is running. Agitate direction, it forces the water back into the tub outlet. Reverse (drain & spin) direction, the water pumps out of the tub and through the drain hose.

During agitation, the neutral drain mechanism (cams and pawls and latches and such) in the transmission presets so that when the motor next pauses briefly and restarts in the reverse direction, the tranny goes into neutral drain mode.

When drain is finished (one increment on the timer, 2 minutes), the motor pauses, the neutral drain latch mechanically releases, and the motor restarts in the same (reverse) direction to engage spin. Of course, draining also occurs to pump away the water extracted from the clothes.

The pause between agitate and drain is required both for the motor to coast to a stop before reversing, and for the neutral drain latch to engage.

The pause between drain and spin is required for the neutral drain latch to release.

The neutral drain parts in the transmission wear over time such that it may not preset during agitation, causing spin to begin immediately when the motor reverses.

Very early direct-drive machines (the first couple/three years) did not have the neutral drain feature. There was a pause between agitate and drain for the motor to coast to a stop, but spin (intentionally) started immediately upon the motor's reverse.

Edited by DADoESTX, 19 October 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Scottthewolf]

The only 2 reasons why they changed to a neutral drain is so all the dirt settles to the bottom of the wash tub, rather than flinging it back over the clothes and to reduce the "load" on the motor. If this machine was a belt drive and it went to direct into spin with a full tub of water, water would splash over the top of the tub, and it might even make the motor go out on overload because there is no idler pulley, clutch or motor pivoting plate to make the belt slip until all the water is out of the tub.

Another thing they could have done rather than messing with gearcase is to use an electric remote drain pump that drains the water out before the tub starts spinning like Frigidaire and GE have done for years.

Edited by Scottthewolf, 19 October 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Spin Pawl
http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/670561

 

part of assembly # 26

[pzion]

Very early direct-drive machines (the first couple/three years) did not have the neutral drain feature. There was a pause between agitate and drain for the motor to coast to a stop, but spin (intentionally) started immediately upon the motor's reverse.

Is there a way to be sure that this machine wasn't one of the early ones?

[RegUS_PatOff]

Is there a way to be sure that this machine wasn't one of the early ones?

Whirlpool WTW5505SQ1 c.2007
and parts diagram of your Washer (above)

[Budget Appliance Repair]

I believe the only ones that were not neutral drain where the first year or two when these direct drives were first introduced in 1982 & 1983.

I've seen many that should be neutral drain and aren't, just like yours and if that is the only problem I say let it go as long as it still spins the water out of the clothes good the clutch is fine and it works just like one of the original non-neutral drain models.

It's not really that much harder on the motor but does put more wear on the clutch since it has to slip longer while it is spinning at the same time the water is draining but the clutches do hold up very well, (a number 10 flat washer put into one of the clutch lining spring cups will give a slipping clutch many more years of life).

[pzion]

Is there something showing how to rebuild the transmission on this machine? There seems to have been a video on it at http://fixitnow.com/...drain-problems/ but it now says that it was removed by the user.

Edited by pzion, 20 October 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

some info
http://appliantology...ansmision-info/

[pzion]

I see that there is a neutral drain kit available. Is it likely that this is just a problem with the spin pawl?

[Budget Appliance Repair]

The neutral drain kit will generally always fix the problem.

It has been mentioned by someone a while back ago in this forum when this same discussion came up that the spin pawl is the part that wears out causing the neutral drain to go directly into spin instead of neutral draining properly.

Quite some time ago I ordered just a spin pawl to test this theory but have never taken the time to open a transmission up to install it and test the theory. I have no doubt that just replacing the spin pawl will correct the problem, (it's pretty much the only part of the neutral drain kit that seems to be a wear point).