27 replies to this topic

[gregger77]

Hey all,

I have a Kitchenaid KAWE900S washer from 1987. I have a problem, and here are the symptoms:

Symptom 1: Lately my wife has noticed a bit of a high-pitched "chirring" sound when the spin cycle starts.

Symptom 2: Today I was starting a medium-large load and after filling the machine began agitating, and the "chirring" sound was constant. I think I may have detected a very, very faint hot rubber smell. I needed to add a couple of items to the wash, and when I did, the slight additional "load" on the motor disengaged something, and now the motor was only humming (loudly). To keep the motor from overloading, I pushed Pause, then tried to restart. Just buzzing. Tried a few times, no change.

Symptom 3: I powered the machine off to cancel the load, then powered back on again and started a Spin cycle. The two-second normal agitation (to set up the gear change) did not run; just the loud motor buzz. Then pause. Then the Spin started; again, only got the buzz. I grabbed the machine at the top and gently rocked/jiggled it a bit (I used to play pinball, I knew how to give it a little "English" ) and suddenly the machine "popped into" spin and the pump instantly began draining the tub.

I figured the machine was not doing well "under load" so I let it drain, then took a few items out and filled the machine only to medium. It rain fine, no odd noises!

I replaced the transmission, clutch and drive coupler with new FSP parts just 3.5 years old and all have been running great. The machine usually only runs with medium size loads, nothing really heavy (considering it's an XL-capacity machine). I wonder if the chirring sound is a slipping driver coupler, or something else?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

[RegUS_PatOff]

... Kitchenaid KAWE900S
.... I wonder if the chirring sound is a slipping driver coupler, or something else?

1) standard Whirlpool direct drive Washer
2) although a bad Coupler wouldn't cause the Motor to stall
It may be a bad Motor (Start Switch), or maybe a bad Timer ..
May have to remove Motor from Transmission, place on floor,
holding it between your feet, to see it it runs (Spin & Agitate) when removed.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Possibly something was stuck in the pump just about ready to be sucked through making the chirring noise and then became lodged causing the complete stoppage of motor and your little "Pinball English" jarred it loose.

[DADoESTX]

I have a Kitchenaid KAWE900S washer from 1987.

That's an electronic blast from the past.

[phydeauxe64]

I agree with RegUs, check the motor coupling and see if it's broken, if you can, pull the washer away from the wall,lean it back and check for a small pile of rubber on the floor. If there is replace motor coupler. As for wirring noise it could have been something stuck in the pump,it's fairly easy to remove and check while yer under there checkin the coupler. If motor coupler and pump are ok and the motor stopped and you smelled something burning,you may have a bad capacitor It's the black round hickey on the side of the motor,if you see an oily stuff leakin out of it replace it. Let us know what you found, thanks. ;-)

Edited by phydeauxe64, 01 October 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[gregger77]

Hi Guys, thank you for the ideas. Sorry for the slow reply...I was out of town for a few days.

Budget Appliance, the washer does keep making noise now so wifey is only running smaller loads. So maybe something is in the pump but only jams it and the motor when the load is heavy.

phydeaux64, I will check coupler and pump first. Do you have any tips on how to check the pump with it off of the machine? (Guess: I can spin it with my hand..)

Then I'll report back before attempting to figure out the motor test.

DADoESTX, yes, it's a blast from the past all right! But a very nice machine. (Funny how it keeps running so long as I keep repairing it!) The all-electronic controls are great. My wife loves them. Lately, the touch-panel control board does like to power itself up and blink away, asking for a cycle selection....but, as long as the darn thing doesn't start itself, I figure I can live with that. (Electrical consumption of the board must be very low?)

[jb8103]

I think I'd get the basket out and have a look around...providing I was up for keeping this thing running after 25 years. Maybe something jammed under there or the basket is starting to settle.

Are we sure we're getting good voltage to the motor? No loose connection on the lid switch, anything like that?

Edited by jb8103, 05 October 2012 - 06:15 AM.

[gregger77]

Hi jb8103,

Re: basket, good thought. Yes, maybe I will pull the basket and sniff around there. What wear items do you think I should look for? If the basket is settling, do you mean deformed to the point of replacing it, or, something else that might need to be replaced? Thanks.

Re: motor, the lid switch has been very solidly jumpered for a while (only wifey uses machine and has been safety-trained). Also, the chirring noise tells me there's more of a rubbing/friction/loose part thing happening vs. electrical...but I won't rule it out.

Thanks again.

[telefunkenu47]

Basket settling?? hows the drive block looking? are the ears sitting squarely in the block? Pix pls.

[gregger77]

Hey jb8103, telefunk...You both mention "basket settling."

What is basket settling? What would I look for to identify "basket settling?"

Re: the drive block....Not sure what I should be looking for re: ears.

* * *

Meanwhile I took off the pump and the drive coupler, and here's what I found:

DRIVE COUPLER: Fine, excellent condition. The one I installed a few years ago was the newer, metal-reinforced type and it's good.

RUBBER ISOLATER: Perfect condition. Very fresh, flexible, no cracks.

PUMP: Pump does not have anything caught in it.

However, its action is a kinda stiff; I can't turn it freely with my finger. A wooden clothespin fits snugly in the driveshaft slot to allow turning, and even then, turning the pump is kind of stiff, in no way is it "freewheeling."

What type of pump rotation is acceptable?

Note, when I disconnected the upper pump hose, the tub emptied about 1.5 to 2 pints of water onto my folded towel. Is that about normal?

Edit: This a.m. I pulled the agitator to at least see the top of the drive block. (Don't have spanner tool to remove nut.) Anyway, tables on spin tube are normal, intact in notches of drive block, no defects I can see from here, drive block position seems normal.

Attached Files

•  Drive coupler and isolator.jpg   94.28K   5 downloads
•  Drive block and nut.jpg   49.08K   7 downloads

Edited by gregger77, 07 October 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[gregger77]

P.S. -- THERE IS SOME RUST on the shaft end, and some rust staining on the shaft socket on the pump.

However, the pump came off with no effort.

Answers to questions in the reply above are greatly appreciated! I think I may be talking to myself here...

Edited by gregger77, 07 October 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[gregger77]

Hi all,

To avoid too many overlapping questions/responses, I'm starting a thread here devoted to motor noise.

(Other symptoms of my problem, detailed here http://appliantology...-heavier-loads/ are focused on the pump, drive block and who knows what else.)

Take a peek at this YouTube video, and crank up your speakers because the sound is low. See the notes in the YouTube post.



This is a 1987 motor. (Sounds like the Kelvinator fridge in your uncle's old garage, doesn't it? What do you think of the chatter? Is it time to replace it? There have been a couple of scenarios where the capacitor won't start it. Is that possibly the motor's fault? If you replace the motor, should you also replace the capacitor? (Both are original.)

I have a digital multimeter so it's hard to test the capacitor, but it seems to swing around a bit before settling to 1 (I think that means infinite).

Here are my motor ohm tests:

High-speed windings, blue/white and white wires, spec is .75 to 2 ohms, I read 1.5.
Low-speed windings, violet and white wires, spec is 1.5 to 3 ohsm, I read 2.8.

White & white-black wires, (manual doesn't name them), spec is ZERO ohms, but I am getting .4

Start winding, black and yellow wires, spec is 4 to 7 ohms, I read 7.6.

Thanks for any advice.

Edited by gregger77, 07 October 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[gregger77]

Basket settling?? hows the drive block looking? are the ears sitting squarely in the block? Pix pls.

See pic in my reply, above. BTW, what is basket settling? You and jb both used this term but I don't know what it means or what to look for. Overall, basket appears normal and position of drive block is good. THANKS!

Edited by gregger77, 07 October 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Motor sounds noisy to me ..
It's a Start Capacitor and could be OK
http://www.repaircli...rtDetail/675936

 

http://www.repaircli...PartDetail/2859

 

[gregger77]

Thanks. With the motor being that noisy, would you replace it right away? Would you replace the start capacitor at the same time?

I was thinking maybe the capacitor is fine but occasionally can't start the motor because the motor is starting to go, is that possible?

Thanks again.

[RegUS_PatOff]

it's possible ..
replacement now ?
would depend on the condition of the rest of the Washer ..

[Cactus Bob]

noise is not the issue , some motors are noisy and stll work fine

the issue is starting

starting can be a bad motor , bad cap , bad transmission , bad water pump , low voltage , bad contacts in the timer , bad connections and a few more i cannot think of right now

if you want a way to check the motor for one type of failure , place on a table with the shaft sticking out , move the shaft up and down , side to side , there should be no movement , the only movement in the shaft should be a little in and out , none up and down/side to side at all .

but this does not clear the motor of problems , you still have a start switch in there that can stick and keep the motor from starting

if this was me , i would stick another used (test motor)motor on it and check back in a week , the homeowner loves this approach because it looks like you really care , if the problem cures it's easy to sell a new motor

[Strathy]

Motor is noisy ... but could go on for years yet making that noise. Those motors are actually pretty hard to kill. When you say there are a couple of times that it would not start ... what exactly were the symptoms? Was this with the motor in or out of the machine? Not start as in not drain ... not wash?

[kdog]

Topics merged

Needs a new motor

[gregger77]

Strathy, the motor has only failed to start a couple of times, motor in the machine, when the washer was under a heavy load. (See original post.)

Cactus Bob, agree, all I really care about is consistent starting. Noise-wise, the shaft has no wiggle, just a little in-and-out. The part of the motor that seems noisy is the round aluminum housing at the "nose" of the motor; maybe that bearing is noisy.

Is the start switch removable? Can it be diagnosed? I assume this is different than the start capacitor.

Thanks!