22 replies to this topic

[sparkydm]

I have the Clean LED flashing 7 times. I pulled the heating element and it reads 10.2 ohms while the new one reads 11.7 ohms. It doesn't seem

to be enough difference to cause it not to heat up. Is this the problem or, should I look elsewhere? It faults out after resetting and won't cycle.

Shows the 7 flash Clean LED fault.

     Decided to take a close look at the wiring underneath. Found an orange wire disconnected from a sensor in the bottom of the tub!

Guessing it's the water temperature sensor? I'll look it up later. I replaced the heater element anyway since I already had the dishwasher

pulled out. I'll update after cycling the dishwasher. 

Edited by sparkydm, 28 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

See this post for more info:  http://appliantology...ng-seven-times/

[RegUS_PatOff]

could also be a bad Hi-Limit Thermostat

http://www.repaircli...sp?R=154&N=2887

[sparkydm]

It just finished a light wash cycle with no faults! Thanks eveyone for the suggestions and information.

The root cause was a disconnected wire to the water temp sensor. I replaced the heater since it was still

the original and the detergent dispenser since it has been broken for some time. The solenoid was burned

up on that and had quit opening the door. All seems to be good now!  :)

[sparkydm]

     OK, the cycle is finishing but, the detergent door isn't opening! It wasn't before so I replaced the entire detergent dispenser.

The old one looked like the door opening solenoid was melted. I installed it like the old one and I did connect both electrical

connectors. I don't have the full repair manual on this unit. Thanks for any help/suggestions.

     I bought the heater and dtergent dispenser at Repair Clinic in Canton, MI today. I haven't had problems with their parts in

the past.

Edited by sparkydm, 28 December 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Tech Sheet - 8535451.pdf

Dispenser Blue wire should have 120v AC (to chassis, ground) anytime the Dishwasher is running...

Light-blue wire only gets connected to Neutral when Dispenser is activated by the Controller

http://www.repaircli...R=154&N=1060957

[sparkydm]

RegUS - 120v is on the blue wire during the wash cycle. Only thing I can think of is if A. New part is defective. or B. I reversed the wires but, that shouldn't keep the wax motor from working, should it? It appears to function like a solenoid.

The 120v drops out after the wash cycle is complete. I'll verify if the door opened after the drying cycle is complete.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Dispenser Blue wire should have 120v AC (to chassis, ground) anytime the Dishwasher is running...

Light-blue wire only gets connected to Neutral when Dispenser is activated by the Controller

We're not really concerned about the Blue wire ..

it's the Light-blue wire that is activated by the Controller

[sparkydm]

Sorry, that's what I meant. The light blue wire has 120v on it, to ground, during the wash cycle. But, the wax motor

never pulls in so the dispenser door doesn't open. If I move it manually, not while it's in cycle, the dispenser door

does open properly, It's just that the wax motor doesn't seem to function. I'm taking the dispenser back to Repair Clinic

now to have them look at it. If they can't test/verify that it works, then replace it. I'll update.

I've replaced the dispenser and it's running through a full cycle now. I'll check the dispenser door when we get

back home to see if it opened. There's 120v to ground measuring from the lt blue wire and the bl/blk wire to ground when

the wash cycle started. we'll see what happened when I get back! Thanks again!

Edited by sparkydm, 29 December 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Light-blue wire only gets connected to Neutral when Dispenser is activated by the Controller

 

Sorry, that's what I meant. The light blue wire has 120v on it, to ground, during the wash cycle.

 

If the Light-blue wire isn't being switched to Neutral ( 0v AC ), then then Controller isn't doing it's job to open the Dispenser.

[sparkydm]

It does drop the voltage on the light blue wire but, not until after the wash cycle. Is there a sequence of operations I can look up? When

 

the voltage supposed to go to 120v and when it's supposed to drop to 0v? It's doing both but, maybe not at the correct time/sequence?

 

I have no problem testing it, I was told It needs 129v on the blue wire to open and now it has to drop to 0v to open. It's doing both but, I

 

don't know in what sequence it supposed to happen. Now I know how people asking me about robot/computer problems feel! Apparently,

 

it's perfectly clear to you but, I'm missing something here! 

 

      I'm baffled since mechanically, the wax motor must pull in it's plunger to trip open the dispenser door. Watching the motor while running,

 

the plunger doesn't mover whether there's 120v on the blue wire or 0v on it. Even though you can easily move it with a toothpick or

 

other small item. It seems to move easily and smoothly.  :)

Edited by sparkydm, 29 December 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[sparkydm]

     A spring keeps the plunger from pulling in and tripping the door retainer lever. The plunger must pull in to activate the

 

lever. Against the pressure of the spring. It's easy to actuate it manually and see how it works. My confusion seems to be

 

that if 0v trips the lever, then these doors aren't setup properly. Since, when not running the wax motor is essentially at 0v,

 

the door can't be tripped by 0v. It would seem to need 120v to accomplish this. Maybe this better explains my confusion as to what

 

you're saying. I'll try to put a closeup picture of this mechanism up on a post. This is a very simple setup but, I don't see how it could

 

possibly work by dropping voltage to 0v. It should be tripped by 120v but, whether 0 or 120v the wax motor doesn't move.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Dispenser Blue wire should have 120v AC (to chassis, ground) anytime the Dishwasher is running...

Light-blue wire only gets connected to Neutral (0v) when Dispenser is activated by the Controller

[sparkydm]

Dispenser Blue wire should have 120v AC (to chassis, ground) anytime the Dishwasher is running...

Light-blue wire only gets connected to Neutral (0v) when Dispenser is activated by the Controller

 

      So, light blue wire should read 120v whenever the dishwasher is running. Then, it should drop to 0v when the dispenser is

 

actuated by the controller? The spring resists the door latch mechanism opening. It can't open if there's 0v on the wax motor.

 

I'll be the first to admit that i don't understand this at all. Moving the mechanism and seeing how it works doesn't add up with

 

0v actuating the wax motor. It also makes no sense that 120v on the wax motor terminals doesn't move the motor. 

 

     We just may have to go without the detergent dispenser until later. Thanks again! 

[RegUS_PatOff]

  ... light blue wire should read 120v whenever the dishwasher is running... it should drop to 0v when the dispenser is actuated by the controller?

 

... It can't open if there's 0v on the wax motor.

1) yes

2) there's 0 v on one side of the Dispenser (light-blue wire)

there's 120v on the other side of the Dispenser (blue wire)

[kdog]

The diagram shows the dispenser with a solenoid, are you referring to this as a "wax motor" ?

Check for certain that the power connection is of the correct polarity (black hot/white neutral)

Describe exactly where you connected the loose orange wire that was disonnected - you sure the heater is now working ?  The dispenser can be tested manually by applying 120v to the terminals using a cheater cord - that will rule out the bad dispenser theory.

[Scottthewolf]

Usually, when I find a melted detergent dispenser solenoid, the electronic control board is bad also.  I have had a few of these dishwashers where the control board  had the relay for the detergent dispenser solenoid that was welded closed and had voltage supplied to the solenoid as long as the door was closed.

[sparkydm]

     I originally refereed to it as a solenoid but, the videos kept calling it a "wax" motor, so I did also. I work in an industrial/robotic capacity and we always call them a solenoid.

 

This appliance/plumbing venue has been more fun then I ever imagined! I may have to try the control board though. They say I can return it if it doesn't fix the problem.

 

There's a post stating I should have 120v on one side of the dispenser and 0v on the other. I've only seen that in the case of relay contacts, never in a solenoid situation.

 

That part still baffles me as to how it's possible.

 

   The orange wire was just hanging underneath the dishwasher. Yes, the heater is working great and there are NO faults coming up during or after the completed wash cycle.

 

I'm wondering if the control board is bad, can it damage the new dispenser or, it just won't work? I'm over $1,000 in plumbing/water heater/drain/dishwasher repairs the past

 

2 months and would love to take a financial breather. But, if the control board will damage the new dispenser I'll have to replace it or just disconnect the dispenser for now.  

Edited by sparkydm, 30 December 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[RegUS_PatOff]

... I should have 120v on one side of the dispenser and 0v on the other.

... That part still baffles me as to how it's possible.

Switch S1 is ON anytime the Dishwasher is running

both Switches need to be ON when the Dispenser is to be activated

[sparkydm]

      RegUS;  Now that's perfectly clear! Now I understand why there's voltage but, no current flow. Thank you so

 

much! So, the switch is on the control board which isn't allowing curent to flow even though voltage is present on

 

both sides of the dispenser solenoid. Nothing like a good print. Apparently, it's probably in the larger print I got but,

 

didn't get it large enough to read. :)