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My ancient Kenmore Direct drive washer cuts off mid-cycle

Washing machine transmission clutch

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20 replies to this topic

#1 KennyB221

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

My ancient Kenmore series 80 Ultra Heavy Duty Washing machine occasionally cuts off mid cycle and refuses to agitate or spin until I rotate the drum manually. Is this a transmission problem, clutch problem, or something else? The model no. is 82781800. I've checked the coupler and it works fine manually, but the problem persists. 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Ken



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#2 jumptrout

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

Sounds to me more like a bad motor or intermittent lid switch problem.



#3 kdog

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

Links to LidSwitch Parts:

 

http://www.repaircli...er=110.82781800

 

 

Door-Switch-279347-00928734.jpg

 

 

http://www.repaircli...er=110.82781800

 

 

Actuator-350733-00633822.jpg


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#4 KennyB221

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

I've recently replaced the lid switch and replaced the motor a few years ago. I definitely think it might be in the transmission or clutch. What do you think?



#5 dimitri77565

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

Is total dead or you hear motor run? If motor runs then its trany. If its dead then it's timer. The neutral drain type will drain but not engage spin until timer stops and restarts motor. If timer skips that it will never go to spin. Need more info on this one. If trany is bad it could fil with water ,motor runs but no agitation and u grab agitator and pul,twist it engages.

Is total dead or you hear motor run? If motor runs then its trany. If its dead then it's timer. The neutral drain type will drain but not engage spin until timer stops and restarts motor. If timer skips that it will never go to spin. Need more info on this one. If trany is bad it could fil with water ,motor runs but no agitation and u grab agitator and pul,twist it engages.

#6 KennyB221

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

What happens is that the tub will fill, then stop - no agitation (except my wife's) or spin. You can hear the timer running. When you start the tub by hand - it begins it's normal cycle. 



#7 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

... Is total dead or you hear motor run?


.

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#8 certified tech group 51

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Are you saying that , when in the spin cycle.. with the  lid switch bypassed,  to get the spin basket to spin, you have to use your hand help it to start spinning????............... I would look at the clutch,  any oil  there ???...............look for a ring of oil on the cabinet, about a foot up from the bottom of the cabinet..............The top seal is easy to replace and if the clutch is not worn to much just clean and reuse.... I would use a new one, with all of the work and all.......4152011013.jpg

...Tool jig for gear box........

4152011036.jpg

...Tail piece from a sink drain..........

4152011031.jpg.

push the old out and push in the new...Tail piece does both.....Seal P/N 3349985....................



#9 KennyB221

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

RegUS_PatOff  - There's a hum, but I'm not sure whether it is the timer or the motor. The problem is intermittent. Seems to be okay right now. That's why I'm leaning more towards a clutch/transmission problem. 

 

certified tech group 51- that is helpful-  I haven't noticed anything on the inside of the cabinet, but I also wasn't looking. Since it is working right now I'm reluctant to open it up to check it out. Next time it stops, I'll pull the cabinet off and check unless you think it'll do more damage. 

#10 Comstock_Services

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

So when you hand start the washer with the lid open it just takes off in agitate? or spin?


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#11 suampman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

Don't forget to check the motor start capacitor. Could be on the edge. Especially if you hear a hum and the motor does'nt start.



#12 KennyB221

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

Comstock_Services - Both. It depends on the cycle that the timer is set on.

 

 

suampman - How do I check the capacitor? is it on the motor or the instrument panel?

#13 Comstock_Services

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

Comstock_Services - Both. It depends on the cycle that the timer is set on.

 Are you holding down or bypassing the switch while doing this?


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#14 Comstock_Services

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

RegUS_PatOff  - There's a hum, but I'm not sure whether it is the timer or the motor. The problem is intermittent.  

 

certified tech group 51- that is helpful-  I haven't noticed anything on the inside of the cabinet, but I also wasn't looking. Since it is working right now I'm reluctant to open it up to check it out. Next time it stops, I'll pull the cabinet off and check unless you think it'll do more damage. 

#1 if it's a hum the check the cap as advised before, it will bw either the back wall of the machine, near the water valve, or mounted to the motor.

 

#2 opening it up isn't gonna hurt anything, and you've gotta do it to check the cap anyway.


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#15 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

... How do I check the capacitor? is it on the motor or the instrument panel?

on this model, it's in the Control Panel


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#16 KennyB221

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

HOlding down the switch - I know it's a bit dangerous, but danger is my life! (hehe)

 

I've done a lot of work on this machine, so I know it's no problem, just a pain since it's in a corner of the kitchen. Next time It happens, I'll open it up and check it out.



#17 Comstock_Services

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

With a simple multimeter, you can do a basic static test of the capacitor. All this tells you is if the capacitor is shorted or not. Basically tells you if it's bad but not necessarily if it's good. You should first short the capacitor out with a screwdriver to make sure it doesn't have a charge on it that could damage your meter. Set the meter to read ohms and place the probes across the terminals. Initially, it will be a short circuit and read zero or very low ohms but it will quickly charge up so the reading should be increasing in ohms value. It's best to do this with an analog meter so that you can see the meter needle swing as it charges up rather than seeing a bunch of increasing numbers on the digital meter.

 

capacitortest1.jpg

 

 

To get a better indication of the condition of the capacitor, many multimeters have a capacitor check function that will read the value of the capacitor. Something that just an ohmmeter cannot do. Here, I am showing this type of meter reading a capacitor from a GE machine. It is showing 47.39 microfarads which is within tolerance of the 45 mf capacitor.

 

capacitortest.jpg

 

The problem with these static tests is that you are only using the low DC voltage of the meter to test the capacitor while in actual use, they will have 120vac across them. I have a piece of test equipment that will do full dynamic testing of capacitors that place full rated voltage across them and check for value, leakage, and ESR (resistance). This can find problems that a multimeter cannot. Most tech's don't have this type of equipment and really don't need it. If it doesn't look like it's been cooking, doesn't smell bad, isn't shorted (seems to charge ok with multimeter), it's probably ok. Best to just carry a couple spares to do a quick swap check anyway. You cannot bypass the capacitor as the motor needs it to start. You can however, disconnect the capacitor, apply power to the motor and quickly start it by hand to see if it functions. On Whirlpool motors, the capacitor is switched out of circuit anyway as soon as it gets going.

 

As far as the motor windings, overload and switch, you can do some basic ohmmeter tests. For the Whirlpool motors, you should read 4 to 7 ohms across the start winding (yellow and black wires), 3/4 to 2 ohms across the high speed windings (blue and white wires), 1 1/2 to 3 ohms across the low speed winding (white/violet and white wires), and 1 1/2 to 3 ohms across the extra low speed winding (white/orange and white wires). You can check the overload switch between the white/black and white wires which should read dead short (zero ohms). With the motor switch in place, you should read short (zero ohms) across the red terminal and black wire (start winding switch) as well as the same across the orange terminal and blue wire. You must remove the switch to further test the switch mechanism. With the switch removed, you should have open circuit between red terminal and black wire and open between orange terminal and blue wire and dead short between orange terminal and violet/white wire.

 

Power applied to a motor that won't rotate can be bad on the motor windings and capacitor. The capacitor is only meant to be in circuit for just a second or two til the motor gets up to speed. It is then switched out of circuit by the motor switch. If the motor won't rotate or the switch fails, the capacitor can quickly be destroyed.

 

Eric


 


 


Edited by Comstock_Services, 30 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.

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#18 KennyB221

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

Is there a  link that shows how to check the capacitor? Is it a standard ohm check or something else?



Wow! Answering my question before i even ask it! You must be psychic!



#19 Comstock_Services

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

on this model, it's in the Control Panel

 Thanks Reg for the catch I didn't look it up, but thank you!


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#20 KennyB221

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

Thanks reg - I thought it was. I recognize the capacitor.



#1 if it's a hum the check the cap as advised before, it will bw either the back wall of the machine, near the water valve, or mounted to the motor.

 

#2 opening it up isn't gonna hurt anything, and you've gotta do it to check the cap anyway.

I meant continuing to use the machine, not opening up the cabinet. Sorry about the confusion.







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