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Kitchenaid Refrigerator KSRB25QGSS01

Warm/Cold

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24 replies to this topic

#1 Patricio

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

Call the other day for SxS Kitchenaid refer with ice maker & water dispenser problems. Homeowner purchased house with reefer in it. water valve was not hooked up. New owner bought icemaker install kit. Ice maker would not fill. Water dispenser worked for couple days then valve stuck in open dispense. dude had to shut water off at sink.

Customer called me about problem, I set up appointment, meanwhile obtain tech sheet from Reg. Customer's wife calls morning of service call saying freezer not cold all ice has melted temp in freezer 50 degree. I tell them to put thermometer in refrigerator & call me in a hour. Temp is same 50. I ask her if fans are running, can she make out if compressor is running. She tells me she thinks they are but will have husband call me in morning. Service call would be 30 miles away, I was afraid system failure unit is 14 years old.

Next morning he calls me & we walk thru it on phone. Evaporator fan is blowing warm air, freezer is 51, fridge same. He says he thinks compressor is running, describes condenser coil as dirty, but he can make out the layers of coils. Tells that fan is blowing over drain pain & the flow of air is strong.

I let him make the call, I can come out & diagnose but if I have to condemn, diagnostic charge is in effect (long distant call). Opts to go shopping cause of age of refer.

Calls me this afternoon says came home from looking & fridge is cold, 38 degrees. puts thermometer in freezer & calls hour later, freezer holding at 06 degree. Wants me to come out for original water call.

Any clue why the warm temps for 2 days with fans running? Had an Amana one time that complaint was refrigerator would be perfectly fine, then go into defrost for 3 days then come back on & cycle correctly. Turned out that defrost bi-metal was shorting out but the evaporator fan would not run, I don't think this is the case.

Going on call 9 in morning, Suggestions as always greatly appreciated.
I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
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#2 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:52 AM

Yeah, probably different than amana as amana use to connect it's evap fans to the bi-metal. Sometimes I think that is brilliant other times I think it's dumb. Anyhow, several useful additional questions to ask the customer's for future reference... 1) do you see any ice buildup in the freezer (many times they will automatically say "no" since the freezer is too warm in their opinion so you have to press them on this), are the left and right sides of the fridge near the doors very warm (suggesting condenser fan problem) and if the compressor is warm (not hot) and vibrating.

Your problem is intermittent and hopefully you can catch it acting up but we can talk about the likely suspects. If customer is correct and all fans are running strong we can rule out temp controls, and fan motors (but check condenser fan to be sure) That leaves in order of probability: intermittent start relay, compressor, defrost system (if freezer has frost preventing air circulation, then this moves to first place probably not adc if condenser fan is running) and lethargic/intermittent condenser fan motor.

If I was a betting man, i'd put my money on start winding problem, whether ptc or compressor itself. But so far (and just in case my wife reads this), I've only been lucky at love.


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#3 Bobice

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:11 AM

Motherboard
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40 Years HVAC/R service, sales,installations. a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

#4 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:22 AM

Motherboard


If this was a GE or variable compressor kitchenaid (like many K series kitchenaids) you could be correct. There is an ADC but I don't think this particular model has a mainboard.


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#5 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:37 AM

... Tells that fan is blowing over drain pain & the flow of air is strong.

if the Condenser Fan is running, the Compressor should be running . . .
Maybe bad Overload OR Start Relay .
OR stuck Realy on the Defrost Controller ?
http://appliantology...01-tech-sheets/
 
http://www.repaircli...?R=154&N=844415

 

Defrost-Control-Board-4388932-00795844.j
 
 
 
. .


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#6 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

Stuck adc is a possibility and I had thought that through (like that means anything, lol) but at some point temps should have dropped below 50. If I'm not mistaken, the condenser fan and compressor are energized by the adc on the same circuit. So if that fan is running then a functioning compressor would be cooling. If the heater is staying on, I would think the bi metal would shut the heater off and cooling from the compressor would drop the temp below the upper range of the bi-metal. With the compressor and heater battling and the bi-metal sneaking in every so often to side with the compressor, I estimate temps in the freezer would probably be somewhere in the 30 degree range. But then again, with an adc, anything is possible.


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#7 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

Here goes,  On way to see what I can do.  Have positive attitude, going to figure out.  Will post later on outcome.   Thanks all for inputs. :thanks:


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IgonFishn

#8 certified tech group 51

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:27 AM

Looking at the wire diagram, it could be a cranky freezer cold control....located in between the A.D.C. and the compressor...............Operates  the compressor and the condenser fan motor......Don't ya hate to drive all that way and it is operating O.K.????.



#9 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

... that fan is blowing over drain pain


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#10 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:53 PM

What I have:  Refrigerator hot when I arrived.  Fans running constantly. plenty strong fan flow. Compressor head very hot.   Turned off thermostat, fans stop, lights on/off working. Unplugged fridge,  Pulled relay & overload, tested compressor pins Starter/common & run/common pins ohm out within specs,  Both add up correctly to total of S & R pins.  Pins to compressor open no short.

 

Plug in, Energized, turned thermostat to middle range.  Defrost heater should not come on defrost limit should be open.   Compressor Relay/overload clicks twice.  I put Amp probe on power supply line.  Reading 0.02amps.  Relay kicks in amp draw jumps to 17 amps.  Overload kicks compressor back out (hear 2nd click)  amp draw back to 0.02 amps.  Fans don't lose a beat.

 

What now?    BTW check EDC connections.   BK wire (1 pin) to WH wire (6pin) 42 volts.  All other wires connected to EDC to WH (common) 20v or less. 

 

If therm was shorted why would fans run continuous?   Am I ate up with case of dumbass?


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#11 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:45 PM

... BK wire (1 pin) to WH wire (6pin) 42 volts.

BK(1) to WH(6) should be 115v AC line voltage
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#12 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

BK(1) to WH(6) should be 115v AC line voltage

Yes I read that in the tech  sheet,  my question is why would there be less.  Direct short?  Why would the fans keep running @ the amp draw be so high causing overload to kick out.   Trying to sort out.    What else should I have checked.   Just when I think I am understanding electricity I get an inside curve ball.  


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
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#13 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:07 PM

...  my question is why would there be less.  Direct short?  

broken wire / bad connection somewhere ..

OR you're not reading your meter / or the voltages correctly .


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#14 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

You first needed to cool down the compressor. Many compressors have internal thermal motor protectors. Once cooled, you may have been able to start it. But something is causing it to overheat. Although you tested the compressor electrically, it may have an internal mechanical problem such as a binding piston. All this is subject to proper voltage being applied.

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#15 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:31 PM

Digital meter,  checked, rechecked, & rechecked again.   Was getting 120v at all other 120 connections.   Why the high amperage?   Watched it cycle from 0.02 to 17 click back to 17 amps several times.   Seal system restriction?


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
IgonFishn

#16 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

You first needed to cool down the compressor. Many compressors have internal thermal motor protectors. Once cooled, you may have been able to start it. But something is causing it to overheat. Although you tested the compressor electrically, it may have an internal mechanical problem such as a binding piston. All this is subject to proper voltage being applied.

I was leaning towards compressor mechanical failure or sealed system failure.  Thing for sure unit was cooling, unit got warm for long period of time, & started working again for 6 hours then got hot again.   Unit has other problems, ice maker shot, water valve questionable.  Dispenser water valve defective, does not shutoff.  Ice dispenser spring switch not activating correctly.  Repair bill would be third the cost of a new SxS or possibly more.  Does customer want to spend that on a 15 year Refer.


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#17 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Sealed system failure resulting in high head pressure is a good bet as well.

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#18 Patricio

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:50 PM

That is why comp is very hot,


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#19 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:06 AM

could all be caused by the wrong voltage mentioned coming into the ADC


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#20 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:13 AM

Sounds like the famous ADC board & compressor start relay 1-2 punch.  This kind only comes out by prayer and fasting... and troubleshooting.

 






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