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Frigidaire Gallery front load 417.39012890 won't spin


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#1 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:24 AM

Hi all.

 

I have a Frigidaire Gallery front load washer, circa 1998, #417.39012890, that I'm having some puzzling issues with.  Last weekend, my wife went to remove a load of laundry and "had to" (sigh) force the door to open.  After reading about the myriad problems with this latch system, I left the door open and used a screwdriver to push on the safety switch with the door open, and the machine functioned properly.  Sooooooo, I assumed a problem with the latch, removed ours and found the solenoid, coil, or whatever you call the spring loaded latch closer was fried (open circuit, plunger frozen).  For grins I also tested the wax motor with a cheater cord, and it pushed out in <30 sec but took ~30 sec to retract when power was removed.  Resistance was 1800 ohms.

 

This latch assembly is the "old school" version, replacement of which requires splicing in a new wiring harness, replacing a cement counterweight, etc, so I found a used latch assembly on ebay and installed that instead.  Solenoid on that one worked great and wax motor on that one also worked OK, but resistance tested to be ~2300 ohms.  Went to run a load, and washer filled with water but went no further (no fast or slow spinning, no draining of water).  Puzzled, I closed the safety switch again with my screwdriver and door open, but again nothing happened.  The latching system appears to be working correctly.  The moment I pull out the timer switch, the "door locked" lamp lights, and the solenoid draws the latch closed.  Thinking maybe there was a problem with the wax motor, I swapped the one from my original board onto the used replacement, but no go.  Thinking perhaps there was a problem with the drain pump, I used  a cheater cord on it and it ran just fine and sounded normal.  After that, when I restarted the washer, it filled with water but went no further. 

 

To summarize:  initial problem was a bad solenoid on door latch assembly.  With that original assembly still installed, I was able to leave the door open and close the safety switch with a screwdriver and the unit seemed to function normally (witnessed low speed tumbles and high speed spins).

 

With replacement (used) latch assembly, which appears to be functioning correctly, unit will fill but not tumble or high speed spin, and after initial water fill, timer will advance but nothing else seems to happen.  Also, drain pump works fine with cheater cord.

 

So, is it still a problem with the latch assembly?  Does the fact that both wax motors ohm out >1300 and retract ~30 sec after power is removed mean that they are interpreted by the controller as failed?  Or perhaps my monkeying around fried the motor controller?

 

I'm planning to spend a couple of hours tonight rearranging my very tight laundry room so I can access the rear of the machine to perform the checks suggested on the tech sheet.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks VERY much,

 

Bill Donnelly

 

 

 



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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

During Spin, does the Door really lock ?

If yes, then unplug the Power Cord from the Wall Outlet.

Can you then open the Door right away ? (bad)

OR only after a few minutes ? (good)

The Door Solenoid needs to mechanically latch the Door

and operate the Switch


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#3 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

During Spin, does the Door really lock ?

If yes, then unplug the Power Cord from the Wall Outlet.

Can you then open the Door right away ? (bad)

OR only after a few minutes ? (good)

The Door Solenoid needs to mechanically latch the Door

and operate the Switch

 

Hi--thanks for your reply!

 

I'm never sure by looking at the dial *exactly* when it is in spin mode, but on at least one attempt, the door remained locked after power removal, but not for 2 mins, more like ~30 seconds.

 

I hoped I was testing for the possibility that this wasn't right by holding in the safety switch using a screwdriver.  I also contemplated shorting together the two wires that go to that switch, but I wasn't sure if the controller would want to see that switch open at some point.  Perhaps I should order a replacement wax motor just to be sure?  Do you know if the controller monitors the resistance of the wax motor circuit?  Both of mine read higher than 1300 ohms (one was 1800, one was 2300).  I've read elsewhere that just because you see the wax motor operate when you use a cheater cord there is no guarantee that it doesn't have some sort of intermittent fault that causes the controller to fault.

 

Thanks again for your quick reply, and let me know if there's something else you think I should try!

 

BD



#4 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

Hi, Bill, welcome to Appliantology!  Remove the panel below the door (two screws right down at the floor) and you'll see a big manilla envelope pasted to the inside cabinet.  Inside is the tech sheet for this machine.  It has all kinda goodies on it:  tests for various problems, strip charts, and wiring diagrams.  If you can scan and post a nice big copy or fax it, that would be a great help to put together a game plan for you.  My toll-free fax number is 866-315-4504.  

 

I think this might be the tech sheet for your washer: http://appliantology...as0-tech-sheet/

 

But you can verify by looking at the part number printed on the lower RH corner of each page of the tech sheet inside your washer and comparing with the part number of the linked file, which is 134458900

 

Interestingly, when I run the model number of your washer through RepairClinic, it pulls up the old nightmare kit with the tub counterweight:  http://www.repaircli...er=417.39012890

 

Door-Lock-131888900-01235858.jpg

 

 

But lists it as NLA.  When I do the same drill at AppliancePartsPros, they pull up the new-style door latch:

 

Part number: AP4455026

Part number: AP4455026

 

But with the note that you'll also need the wire harness:

 

Part number: AP2578323

Part number: AP2578323

 

and door strike:

 

Part number: AP3580441

Part number: AP3580441

 

So it does look like you do have the option of upgrading to the new door latch assembly.  

 

But, for now, let's start by verifying the part number of your tech sheet so we can come up with a game plan for testing the motor circuit.  



#5 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:31 PM

417.39012890

early Frigidaire Gallery

http://appliantology...-control-tests/


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

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#6 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:00 PM

Hello Samurai and Reg_US!

 

I don't have the tech sheet with me but I will check the number and post it tonight.  I think it's only one page though--the one you posted looks like it has a lot more info about timer cams and the like than mine has.  I think the one that Reg_US posted looks like one side of my sheet.  I will for sure let you know tonight. 

 

The links you posted samurai are the same ones I got for a replacement, though I have seen posts (here or elsewhere I don't recall) indicating that you can install the new door latch assembly and strike plate and dispense with the new harness if you put your existing leads into the correct positions on the replacement latch assembly.  Don't know about the counterweight though :)

 

I'm just perplexed by the fact that with my original board with the broken solenoid I was seemingly able to make the machine work correctly if I left the door open and closed the circuit on the safety switch with a screwdriver, but now things seem to be worse rather than better.  Could I have miswired the replacement?  I have the red/black wire to the top position on the safety switch, and black to the bottom.  The wax motor wires are keyed (white front, two reds to rear) so I don't think I could have screwed that up.  The solenoid I have wired with the white wire to the front of the machine and blue white on the terminal to the rear...

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

BD



#7 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:12 PM

When the Door locks,

you have to make sure the Wax Motor is actuating the Switch


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#8 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

When the Door locks,

you have to make sure the Wax Motor is actuating the Switch

 

Hi again Reg.

 

Well, as I have watched the timer proceed through a full cycle, I have pushed on the door and sometimes hear the switch click and sometimes not heard it click.  I also (with the door open) held the switch closed using a screwdriver, but it never allowed the machine to either drain or rotate/spin.  When I pushed on the door I assumed that when I wasn't hearing it click, it was because the wax motor had already engaged it. 

 

Is there any downside to jumping those switch wires together, or using something to keep the switch closed, for an entire wash cycle, other than the obvious safety issues of course :) ?  Of course, it seems like I've already done the functional equivalent using the screwdriver to operate the switch.

 

Thanks!

 

BD



#9 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:24 PM

... Is there any downside to jumping those switch wires together,

should be OK for test purposes

 

clarification:

won't Tumble ? (wash)

won't Spin ?

won't hi-speed Spin ?


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
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RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#10 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:32 PM

should be OK for test purposes

 

clarification:

won't Tumble ? (wash)

won't Spin ?

won't hi-speed Spin ?

 

OK, great, I will jump them tonight.  Should have mentioned that I checked the switch too, and it was open w/o button pushed and 0 ohms with button pushed.

 

And yes, the machine currently won't tumble or spin at any speed.  The only thing it will do is fill.  And when I run a cheater cord to the drain pump, it functions perfectly.

 

Thanks again Reg!!!!

 

BD



#11 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

do the tests in the tech sheets I posted


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
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RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#12 billdonnelly

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:22 PM

do the tests in the tech sheets I posted

 

Hi again.

 

Couple of quick questions:

 

1)  in an earlier post you mentioned that "When the Door locks, you have to make sure the Wax Motor is actuating the Switch" but I assume you mean that the solenoid actuates the door switch, right?  As far as I can see, the sole function of the wax motor is to keep the door latch from being drawn back into the open position when power is cut to the solenoid during a spin.

 

2)  in the test instructions you posted, step 1 says to advance the time to the drain increment, and if the pump doesn't run, to check the safety circuit.  Since I have sat and watched the timer cycle through multiple entire wash, rinse, and spin cycles, both with the door closed, and with the door open but my screwdriver holding the safety switch closed, and haven't seen the drain pump run, am I stuck on step one?  Does "safety circuit" refer to the solenoid, safety switch, and wax motor on the latch assembly, or does it refer to something else?

 

3) last but not least, on steps 3 through 6 of the tests, where should the timer be set to?

 

Thank you sir!!!

 

BD



#13 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:10 PM


1) I'm not sure
2) Drain Pump goes through (3) Timer Contacts, Water Level Switch, and the Door Switch
3) same setting
.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
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RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#14 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

updated tech sheets ... added more wiring diagrams

http://appliantology...-control-tests/

 


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#15 billdonnelly

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:20 PM



updated tech sheets ... added more wiring diagrams

http://appliantology...-control-tests/

 

Hi guys.  Thanks so much for the diagrams. 

 

I made a PDF of the sheets that came with my washer

http://appliantology...er-41739012890/

 

I noted some interesting differences between the doc you posted and mine.  Most notably, under the "Motor Movement (motor will not run)" troubleshooting section, the text is all identical, but the illustrations have the relative pin positions reversed on the 9 pin connector.  I saw something in another post (http://applianceguru...rum2/12211.html) that seemed to reference the same difference, and the conclusion was that this orientation is backwards.  Hopefully I can figure it out based on wire color.

 

I am now able to access the rear of the machine but didn't get a chance to run the tests last night.  I will try them tonight though!

 

Thanks again,

 

Bill


Edited by RegUS_PatOff, 21 May 2013 - 04:02 PM.
convereted and added to download section


#16 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

interesting..

 my  diagram references connectors C4 and C9         131788200     9906

your diagram references connectors C2 and C1         131725600     9803

Your diagram part number, nor model number, isn't found at the Frigidaire website

My diagram isn't necessarily the correct diagram part number, but I didn't notice the differences before.

 

I converted your files, added them to the download section and edited your post


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one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#17 billdonnelly

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:52 PM

Good evening Reg_US and Samurai!

 

Gentlemen, turns out my latest problem was due to one of those always-pesky id10t problems.  Apparently, *someone* (ahemmm, looking down shamefacedly) accidentally sliced through one pink and one gray wire on the bundle headed south from the timer while freeing up some slack to get the new latch assembly in.  As soon as I popped the top off the washer and shone my light in I saw the cut ends.  It was too tight in there to rejoin them directly so I spliced in some new 12g copper and now (crosses fingers) everything seems to be working great.  So, the original prob with the solenoid was the only *real* problem after all.

 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to help.  I can afford a modest donation to the beer fund, and if either of you guys has a hankering for any of Vermont's truly delicious microbrews just holler and I will get it to you.  Thanks again for your help!

 

Bill



#18 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

Hey, you found the problem, though.  Great job, Bill!  That's a total score in my book.  Even us pro's make the occasional boo-boo on the job that befuddles us for a while and then we have to make good on it.  Domo for posting what you found.  Gives a satisfying closure to the whole topic.   :tinkerbell:



#19 billdonnelly

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:18 PM

Thanks again Samurai.  I'm serious about the VT beer too--just let me know.  New London is just a hop, skip, and a jump!

 

Bill






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