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Kenmore FL Washer 110.46757801

Suds F35 error code

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#1 Patricio

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

1)This washer immediately displays Sud in Led, fills partway, shuts down then drains, then displays F35.

2)If unit is unplug &repluged Control board clicks (energizes), Push power button, dial in a cycle (any includeing drain &  spin), push start, Unit will fill then, display Sud, stop & drain & stop.  Then display F35.  If I push power button unit will drain (sucking air)   & not shut down no matter if I push power or cancel button.   I have to unplug to stop.

 F35 on this units tech sheet (W10133490A) says it is a:

"Analog Pressure Sensor Failure"  If this failure is displayed, there is any malfunction of the steamer component detected by the Steamer Electronic Board.

Possible Causes/Procedures

1. Check if pressure hose is fixed correctly...Plugged in to airtrap on one end & pressure sensor on other end.

2.  check if air trap is not blocked...Pulled air trap from tub...not blocked

3.  Check if hose not blocked...hose not blocked...I can blow thru it.

 

Sud error:   Several items to check.

 

1.I pulled drain filter, it was full of lint & such, cleaned, checked pump & hose...all good...Unit drains well.

Tried unplugging & running thru cycle, Sud error shows up & repeats before mention problem.

 

2. Checked harness connections to drain pump & pressure switch.  Tells me to check pressure switch.  How do I check pressure switch.

 

3.  Tells me to put into diagnostic test.    I put into Steamer Functionality Checkup.  It tells me YES (means it is working correctly)   I try to put it into Diagnostic test, Machine enters test on 4th press/hold test rather than 5th.  Enters but it does not text, Does not have a manual test.

 

Any suggestions,  I am leaning toward replacing pressure sensor, will order on Monday.

 

Also I have tech manual that came with unit, customer allowed me to scan copies, I will upload if this site does not have it in library already.    Patricio


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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:21 PM

same tech sheets as:

http://appliantology...0t-tech-bundle/

 

F35 common suds error

Had been using only H.E. detergent (sparingly) ?

http://www.repaircli...R=154&N=1938628

 

Pressure-Switch-W10415587-01273180.jpg


Edited by RegUS_PatOff, 16 June 2013 - 09:22 AM.
fixed links, thanks Budget Appliance Repair

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#3 mark mac

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:24 PM

Take  pressure switch hose off see if it starts  if u still  having same problem need a ccu



#4 Patricio

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:43 PM

What do you mean "if it starts"?    It starts to fills with water then error is displayed Then drains.    Do .you mean attempting to put in diagnose test, if goes to automatic Test the pressure switch is good?   So your saying that is how to check the pressure switch?   Does that work for other make machines like the affinity?   I would like a sure fire way to test these electronic sensor switch.

Take  pressure switch hose off see if it starts  if u still  having same problem need a ccu

 

 

 

 

 

same tech sheets as:

http://appliantology...0t-tech-bundle/

 

Of course RegUS  you already have the tech sheet in the library,  I knew that. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

F35 common suds error

Had been using only H.E. detergent (sparingly) ?

 

Yes other than the lint build up in the trap the unit was clean, no evidence of gookus.  This unit is in a 3/4 mill$ home on the water, the house is spotless,  with a yacht at the back door.


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
IgonFishn

#5 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:45 AM

Don't get side tracked with the main control unit.  A F35 error is almost always the Analog Pressure Sensor.

 

Unplugging the pressure hose and it still not working doesn't by no means mean the problem is the CCU.  If you just remove the pressure hose and it works that would till you that it had something to do with a blockage in the air dome or pressure hose.

 

The problem is something goes wrong in the APS and it constantly thinks there is a SUDS issue.

 

DO NOT blow into the APS, the pressure transducer is a somewhat delicate electronic pressure sensor that is only designed for very low pressures and if it isn't already bad blowing into very well could damage it.

 

RegUs there seems to be a problem with your link to the APS above it links to a Frigidaire cover part?

 

Here's the correct manufactures part#W10415587 and RepairClinic link:

http://www.repaircli...er=110.46757801

 

I have one of these apart that I have just recently changed out and have pulled it all apart and have been thinking about starting a discussion to see If I can get any feedback from FixYourBoard on what may fail in these units.  They are ridiculously expensive and if the pressure transducer is the part that goes bad I have source them for around $10 + shipping and might try to replace the pressure transducer to see if that would fix it.  I just purchased a rebuilt one from Corecentric  so they are rebuilding them now.

 

A couple of years ago it seems there was a period that these were on backorder every where because of some manufacture problem and I'm wondering if maybe it was with the original manufacture for the pressure transducer because when looking up the numbers on the pressure transducer I couldn't find anything with the original manufacture number and seems now the only company making a lot of these pressure transducers is a company named FreeScale.

 

The original pressure transducer had what I think is a manufacture symbol of "EN" then

SPV5004G and a date code of K0?22 - the ? is a number that got scratched off when I pulled the computer chip board out of the plastic housing.

 

Here's the link to the pressure transducer on these APS If anyone is interested in learning a little about these units.

http://parts.arrow.c...or/mpxv5004gc6u

 

There are a bunch of surface mount resistors, a few triacs/transistors and capacitors then two other main larger IC chips, one being an actual micro-controller processor that takes the analog voltage signal that the pressure transducer outputs and turns it into a digital signal and communicates with the main CCU so it can detect very small changes in water level as a digital number that the computer can work with.  The other larger IC chip I haven't been able to track down what it is yet, couldn't find any kind of reference to it, markings look like this:

A large "F" in leaning script which is a manufactures symbol then after that VG3AB

LMV

358 or (Maybe 368)

 

The micro-controller processor is made by ATMEL,

TINY13

20SU

 

The pressure transducer on the small board should be somewhat simple to check if it is working since it is a somewhat simple pin out on the chip, it has eight legs coming out of the chip but only three of them actually have any function the rest are only board mounting points.  Pin out 1 - is the corner that is notched and the pin has a small notch in it.

Pin 1 - Not used

Pin 2 - Vs - Supply Voltage (normally 5 vDC, max of 5.25 vDC)

Pin 3 - Grn - Ground

Pin 4 - Vout - Signal voltage output depending on pressure (1.0-5.0 vDc with a 5 vDC input)

 

My suspicion from the research I've done on these is the pressure transducer fails and the base out put voltage that should probably be right around 1.0 vDC with no water/ no pressure on the transducer shifts so it always sees SUDS.

 

The sequence of event you see when you get a SUDS error is for the unit to fill with something like 4 liters of water then sit for 4 or 5 minutes, (I forget - but on the SUDS error on the tech sheet it tell you this), to try and kill the SUDS then it drains and if it still sees the SUDS it goes to the F35 hard fail and locks up and sometimes only way to reset is to unplug machine to reset to unlock door.

 

There are two different part numbers for the APS and I believe they can be interchanged but you may have to cut one of the keys off the wire connector that plugs into the APS if you don't get the correct one.  A while back when they were all on back order that was what people where having to do.  The other APS  can be found quite a lot cheaper than this one but I haven't determined for sure if they are interchange yet or not, they all use the same pressure transducer put the micro-processor actually has, I believe, an eprom memory and is actually programmed with assembly or c coding and it maybe different - possibly different size tubs or something to do with the one for the steamer or non-steamer models.   So far the only two I've had to replace have been on steamer models so I don't know if they use the APS on non-steamer models.


Edited by Budget Appliance Repair, 16 June 2013 - 06:59 AM.

William Burk (Willie)
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Eureka, CA 95501

#6 mark mac

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:32 AM

There has been a rash of bad ccu for this machine. does the suds error come on as soon as the door locks, if theres a delay a minute or two its the pressure switch



#7 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

RegUs there seems to be a problem with your link to the APS above it links to a Frigidaire cover part?
 
Here's the correct manufactures part#W10415587 and RepairClinic link:
http://www.repaircli...er=110.46757801

thanks, fixed links ..
when I copied the RP item number
1938628

I missed the leading "1"   :whistling:
938628


.

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#8 Patricio

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

Don't get side tracked with the main control unit.  A F35 error is almost always the Analog Pressure Sensor.

 

Unplugging the pressure hose and it still not working doesn't by no means mean the problem is the CCU.  If you just remove the pressure hose and it works that would till you that it had something to do with a blockage in the air dome or pressure hose.

 

The problem is something goes wrong in the APS and it constantly thinks there is a SUDS issue.

 

DO NOT blow into the APS, the pressure transducer is a somewhat delicate electronic pressure sensor that is only designed for very low pressures and if it isn't already bad blowing into very well could damage it.

 

I am 90%+ positive that the problem is the pressure sensor, now the sensor needs to be replaced because I blew in it (did nothing like I expected, da, no bellows in it) Somethin new I learned.

 

 

I have one of these apart that I have just recently changed out and have pulled it all apart and have been thinking about starting a discussion to see If I can get any feedback from FixYourBoard on what may fail in these units.  They are ridiculously expensive and if the pressure transducer is the part that goes bad I have source them for around $10 + shipping and might try to replace the pressure transducer to see if that would fix it.  I just purchased a rebuilt one from Corecentric  so they are rebuilding them now.

 

A couple of years ago it seems there was a period that these were on backorder every where because of some manufacture problem and I'm wondering if maybe it was with the original manufacture for the pressure transducer because when looking up the numbers on the pressure transducer I couldn't find anything with the original manufacture number and seems now the only company making a lot of these pressure transducers is a company named FreeScale.

 

The original pressure transducer had what I think is a manufacture symbol of "EN" then

SPV5004G and a date code of K0?22 - the ? is a number that got scratched off when I pulled the computer chip board out of the plastic housing.

 

Here's the link to the pressure transducer on these APS If anyone is interested in learning a little about these units.

http://parts.arrow.c...or/mpxv5004gc6u

 

Very interesting & informative.

 

There are a bunch of surface mount resistors, a few triacs/transistors and capacitors then two other main larger IC chips, one being an actual micro-controller processor that takes the analog voltage signal that the pressure transducer outputs and turns it into a digital signal and communicates with the main CCU so it can detect very small changes in water level as a digital number that the computer can work with.  The other larger IC chip I haven't been able to track down what it is yet, couldn't find any kind of reference to it, markings look like this:

A large "F" in leaning script which is a manufactures symbol then after that VG3AB

LMV

358 or (Maybe 368)

 

The micro-controller processor is made by ATMEL,

TINY13

20SU

 

The pressure transducer on the small board should be somewhat simple to check if it is working since it is a somewhat simple pin out on the chip, it has eight legs coming out of the chip but only three of them actually have any function the rest are only board mounting points.  Pin out 1 - is the corner that is notched and the pin has a small notch in it.

Pin 1 - Not used

Pin 2 - Vs - Supply Voltage (normally 5 vDC, max of 5.25 vDC)

Pin 3 - Grn - Ground

Pin 4 - Vout - Signal voltage output depending on pressure (1.0-5.0 vDc with a 5 vDC input)

 

When I visit again with the new part I will check the DC voltage on the old part & new part, Hope I don't short it out.

 

My suspicion from the research I've done on these is the pressure transducer fails and the base out put voltage that should probably be right around 1.0 vDC with no water/ no pressure on the transducer shifts so it always sees SUDS.

 

The sequence of event you see when you get a SUDS error is for the unit to fill with something like 4 liters of water then sit for 4 or 5 minutes, (I forget - but on the SUDS error on the tech sheet it tell you this), to try and kill the SUDS then it drains and if it still sees the SUDS it goes to the F35 hard fail and locks up and sometimes only way to reset is to unplug machine to reset to unlock door.

 

Very true, that is what transpired.

 

There are two different part numbers for the APS and I believe they can be interchanged but you may have to cut one of the keys off the wire connector that plugs into the APS if you don't get the correct one.  A while back when they were all on back order that was what people where having to do.  The other APS  can be found quite a lot cheaper than this one but I haven't determined for sure if they are interchange yet or not, they all use the same pressure transducer put the micro-processor actually has, I believe, an eprom memory and is actually programmed with assembly or c coding and it maybe different - possibly different size tubs or something to do with the one for the steamer or non-steamer models.   So far the only two I've had to replace have been on steamer models so I don't know if they use the APS on non-steamer models.

 

This is a steamer model.

 

Very thankful for this information, May I ask where or how you educate yourself in matters like this.   I am always trying to find literature & training for the different appliances.   You are an asset to this site like most of the others that share the knowledgeable info you all have learned over your years of plying your trade.


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
IgonFishn

#9 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:56 AM

Learned all in the last few days researching the parts on the APS seeing if there is a way to fix for a reasonable amount of trouble.

 

I really wouldn't try to take the new APS apart and check voltages if it fixes your problem.  It's not from the pads that the wires connector connects to that you would be checking voltage, you would have to pull the new APS apart and try and take readings from the small legs of the pressure transducer and if you're not careful and short across the legs you very well could fry the new APS, (Remember there is a delicate micro-processor on the board and that maybe is what causes these to fail, maybe the flash memory that holds the programming gets glitched out).

 

To take the old one apart you first take the black plastic cover off, there are a couple of plastic latch points that need to be pried and then slides off.

 

To get the tiny board out of the plastic case then requires a paper clip to be slide straight down the middle back side of the board that doesn't have any circuits on it to release the small plastic hook that holds the board in the plastic housing.


William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#10 Patricio

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:39 PM

There has been a rash of bad ccu for this machine. does the suds error come on as soon as the door locks, if theres a delay a minute or two its the pressure switch

 

New pressure switch did not 'fix, same thing.  plug in unit set cycle, push start.  Unit will door lock, light agitate for a bit, stop & unlock.    Lock back up.   drain pump will activate, pump a while, stop, sit, then begin to fill & display "suds".   stop after a bit  & sit.  then nothing,   If I activate pause twice or power off, unit will go into drain & not shut down.

 

Time for a new CCU?      I spent a lot of time checking wires & connections.   Found nothing out of ordinary.  So far I am out of two trips, couple of hours & $100+ in a part.   Customer has a 3 year old high dollar washer that has not worked in 2 weeks.   They are hoping/expecting I can repair soon.   I am at loss.  Power in power out of board best I can tell.  Inspected board for unusual.   Nada Nothing.   Gotta figure how to diagnose & test better than swapping parts.

 

New board huh.    Patricio


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#11 Patricio

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

 different boards are listed as main electronic control boards plus a steamer electronic control board.   Any recommendation as to which board needs to be replaced.  I don't think it would be motor control board.    Possibly the steamer board.  All boards listed are in excess of $200 & one more than $300.   Help in narrowing down the correct board.


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
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#12 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:13 AM

This is the main control board, CCU (the one you need): http://www.repaircli...er=110.46757801

 

Main-Control-Board-W10157912-01558889.jp

 

This is the main control board for the steamer (you don't need this one... yet): http://www.repaircli...er=110.46757801

 

Main-Control-Board-W10156258-01073678.jp



#13 richseattle56

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:22 AM

Using non HD detergent. I have seen this before. The SUDS error is an indication. Too much soap.


Edited by richseattle56, 28 June 2013 - 04:26 AM.


#14 Patricio

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:50 PM

Sorry no soap residue, only thing I found was the drain filter was full of lint.


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#15 mark mac

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:18 AM

problem with the main ccu, boards are terrible been there before, should be good to go after replacing ccu



#16 Patricio

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:27 PM

CCU on Back order, not available any time soon.  Hope they don't get tired of the laundromat.   Liable to lose the job.  Expected ship date 3 weeks.


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#17 mark mac

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:41 PM

They the ccu's have been on back order for months, must tell u something?



#18 Patricio

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:32 PM

They the ccu's have been on back order for months, must tell u something?

Do I need to stock up?


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
IgonFishn

#19 Patricio

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

problem with the main ccu, boards are terrible been there before, should be good to go after replacing ccu

Very nice & understanding customer.   Received back ordered CCU Friday.  Was able to install this morning. No instruction for possible calibration like other boards have.   Installed board & began diagnostic dance, after complete started washer on a quick cycle.   Unit ran thru cycle without a hitch.  Examined old board, could not find anything out of ordinary other that dull silver solder.   Left as customer started a load on normal cycle.   No call back as of late night, so I take that as repair complete,   a month after initial service call.   As long as customer is happy.    Still would like to know a way to diagnose/test boards in future.   Maybe putting it under a oscillating scope.


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#20 Patricio

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:19 PM

Almost 3 months later washer is working "great, no problems" quote from customer.  Another kick butt on an ornery washer.


I see says the blind man, leading a lame dog, while talking to a deaf person. In other words, Not liable if you choose to follow my opinion.
IgonFishn







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