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Sub Zero 550 Serial M1252579: Fresh Food Compressor Not Running


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14 replies to this topic

#1 AlexM

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

Would anybody happen to have the service manual for this unit?

 

And can someone explain the theory of operation of this unit with the two compressors and one condensor?  Only the evaporator that is in the freezer needs a defrost heating system?  If the same condensor is used for both compressors, is it just shared cooling fins and each is its own sealed system?

 

The complaint was warm FF section.  I am unclear as to which compressor runs which compartment.  The Freezer was below zero and the larger compressor on the left was running and very hot to the touch. The smaller compressor on the right was running and only warm to the touch. All fans including condenser fan are runnig fine.  I ran some test as follows:

 

1. Unplugged compressor relay and overload and plugged in my fancy tester from Freds Appliance Acadamy and got the compressor to run along just fine.

 

2. I put a meter on the overload and it came up with 1.3 ohms, which I understand is acceptable?

 

3.  I put the meter on the relay and in one position got 1.0 ohms and then when I turned the relay over got 'open', which means the relay is good/bad?

 

4. I metered between studs on the compressor and got 33 ohms between the Common and Start (which seems high?) 10.5 ohms between Common and Run (which seems normal?)  and 42 ohms between Start and Run (which seems high?)

 

5. I checked for 120vac at the wires going into the relay and that was good clean voltage.

 

My question is this, are any of these test valuable for figuring out why the compressor won't run, and am I looking at the correct compressor for the FF section?

 

One final comment: Did you hear about the baby seal that walked into a club?

 

 

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#2 JJ Surfer

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:35 AM

I'm no subzero expert but ill give it a try. Turn the freezer cold control to off to make sure you know which compressor is which. Check the amp draw on the ff compressor while it is running, that will verify that if it is running. A low amp draw (.3 amps) could mean a sealed system leak. In the beginning of your post you said both compressors were running and then later asked why the compressor wasn't running. The relay and overload values seemed ok, you verified the compressor would run with your test kit, would it run with original relay and overload? If compressor won't run it is the relay, overload or compressor. I believe the ff evap doesn't need a heater because the cold control is designed to provide enough temp swing for the evap to de-ice since it is never developing a thick layer frost. The condenser might look like one assembly but I believe it had separate tubing for the 2 systems. I haven't actually worked in a subzero for 8 years so hopefully I not too of base but fundamentally it is still just a refrigerator.

#3 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 03:19 AM

Service manual: http://appliantology...service-manual/

#4 certified tech group 51

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:43 AM

Fresh food side is an "Off cycle defrost".................does not get below 32 degs   ( not suppose to anyway ) ..........get the compressor  started  and get your eyes on the evaporator panel ,   let it operate for a good 20 minutes, what does the frost pattern look like????? ...............Looking at the filter dryers , they look like the originals..... Meaning nothing has been replaced...........................................P.S. hope you did not pay too much for Fred's start kit....


Edited by certified tech group 51, 30 June 2013 - 08:44 AM.


#5 AlexM

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

Regarding the start kit...from what I understand, if I had used a 3-1 start kit I could risk burning up the motor windings in the compressor?  Also the overload inside the hard start kit can shut it off if there is excessive amp draw, but since its not physically connected to compressor it has no ability to shut off from heat?

 

If I use a hard start and get the compressor to run, then leave it on the compressor for a few days while I get a OEM relay, do I risk putting it on and having the new relay not work because the windings may be bad or going bad?

 

What is the prefered method for testing a compressor for operation?



#6 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 12:30 PM

Fresh Food Compressor Not Running

... larger compressor on the left was running and very hot to the touch.

... The smaller compressor on the right was running and only warm to the touch.

you say the FF Compressor not running,

but then say both Compressors are running ?

 

SubZero 550 uses a Dual Condenser

each "system" is separate.


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#7 AlexM

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:16 PM

...My bad, The smaller compressor on right was not running, but warm. No clicking noise, not trying to start. This 550 was built in 1996 according to the label.  I only found one condenser, and there are (4) copper tubes going in and out, I assume both compressors share the same condenser and condenser fan?

 

If this has a second condenser, where would it be located?



#8 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:36 PM

..  I only found one condenser,

... and there are (4) copper tubes going in and out,

... I assume both compressors share the same condenser and condenser fan?

1) it's a dual Condenser (separate systems)

2) hence the "dual"

3) only needs one Fan


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#9 AlexM

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

...oh, I was thinking dual=two, my bad.



#10 certified tech group 51

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

The best way to check the windings  ( " windings may be bad or going bad" ) is with a Meg-O-Meter or a tester like it.............. I use a Meg-O-Meter to check the windings, for shorts or high resistance........A 3-N-1 with a clamp-on meter to check current draw at start and then current draw during run.............You do not need a 3-N-1 to get the compressor started........you can use a  Supco RO 81, just a Relay and overload.....Some techs grab the closest 3-N-1 that is in the tool box........RCO410 for 1/4 to 1/3 H.P.  size comp.................RCO810   1/12 to 1/5 H.P. comp..................... the 810 is the one I use for temp. run or install cuz the compressor is on it's last legs any way............The start relay you show is a current relay and the service manual does not  list a replacement....................Is this an R12 system????.



#11 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:51 AM

The best way to check the windings  ( " windings may be bad or going bad" ) is with a Meg-O-Meter or a tester like it.............. I use a Meg-O-Meter to check the windings, for shorts or high resistance.......

 

 



#12 AlexM

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

If for some reason I don't know how many horse the compressor is, can i use the RCO810 to test without worring about overloading the windings with too much voltage? or is this even a concern? 

 

What type of Amps should I be looking for at start and run, likely depends on size of compressor.

 

Will this method of using a 3n1 work if the actual pump inside is damaged or there is a clog at the filter dryer?

 

Thanks for all the imput, I looked at string regaurding testing compressors previously published on this web site and I got a little overwhelmed.

 

Whats the price point for a Meger?



#13 AlexM

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:18 PM

One more question: I'm new to the industry and it seems that there are some techs that use 3n1 start devices and I have came across some reputable company's that do not allow there techs to use them. Should I use them for testing only, or leave them on in tell I can get the proper relay/parts?  Will that do damage?



#14 certified tech group 51

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:06 AM

I use the Supco RCO 810, if after a few tests , it is determined that the O.E.M. start pak will not work...............If the Meg-o -Meter sez it is green all the way but the O.E.M.  start pak will cycle on the thermal overload and it is a high current draw for a few seconds ( it is possibly a mechanical problem )................It is time to tell the customer that Ol' Betsy will be giving up the ghost soon......It is hard to say how long the compressor will last but I have customers that have been warned the it could fail soon and that was over a year ago............I install an RCO 810 and tell the customer the compressor is on life support and to start saving money to purchase a new refer............Meggers prices start off at about a hundred clam$ and go up from there............A 'Megger' brand , model MIT5202 retails for about 4000 clam$................A bit pricy for most techs..............I have the unit shown in the Grand Masters video, a good basic model...........If the compressor is good ,and you do not have an  O.E.M. start pak, you can temporarily install a universal start pak like a RO81...., overload and relay in one package..................install terminals to the L1 and neutral wires on the Ro81 so you do not cut off the refers original  wire terminals......For 3-N-1 usage, there are quite a few techs that have given their opinions on the use of the 3-n-1's..........A lively debate there has been a few times..........your tech sheet will tell you the run amps, it is stated  in Watts.......I.E...180 Watts divided by 120 Volts will give you the run Amps..........



#15 PDuff

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:53 AM

Sounds like your compressor relay and overload are ok.  Have you check the refrigerator section control for continuity?  The evaporator fan motor circuit is routed through one of the door switches so if the FF evap fan is running with the door switch closed then the control should be ok as well.






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