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Where there smoke, there's wire!

Furnace Weil Mclain

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:58 PM

Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

Weil Mclain WTGO-4 has been firing ok. It is used, at this time of year, solely for heating the domestic water in the internal tankless heater. The unit is a home heating oil fired one.
Unit has a 1.25 gph 80* B Delavan nozzle. Top flue goes into a masonry chimney.
The other day I noticed dark smoke from the chimney and immediately shut down the unit.  Thinking soot build up, I proceeded to thoroughly clean the heat exchanger grids, box, etc.  They were sooty (dry) but nothing really bad.  The blower motor, air inlets, etc., were dust covered (unit is in laundry room and I have 2 teenage boys) so I dis-assembled nearly everything (pump, blower cage, couplings, housing, etc., etc.  Cleaned lines, new filter, wiped everything clean and when I plugged it in  (it's on a connection harness, not hard wired as of now), it popped the GFI that is on that circuit.  It has however, been on a plug in since the Sandy debacle and has run without a problem.
Re-set and it popped again.  Plugged it directly into another GFI unit and the positive leg welded itself to the GFI contact until I yanked them apart.  Really, the pos leg is now 1/8 " shorter.  I'm thinking DEAD SHORT.  (But where?)
Beckett burner - RWB model
Suntec strainer
HONEYWELL ignition

Unit does not have the auto purge feature of the newer ones. This one is 5+1/2 years old
I disconnected he Beckett from the wiring and tested it and it tests fine.
I tested the wiring harness that I use and it tested fine.
I tested the GFI and it tests fine 
I tested the circuit that I use and it tests fine.
Nothing lights up or does anything because the GFI immediately trips.
Lastly, but most important.  After removing the motor leads for the Beckett, I can't recall (with absolute certainty) to what other leads they were connected.  I've included a picture and would appreciate the correct wiring designations.  This one was my fault and stupid!
It appears as though the WHITE motor lead needs to be connected to the WHITE ignition lead.
It appears as though the BLACK motor lead needs to be connected to the ORANGE/BLACK (ignition/transformer connection.
 
 
I did find, underneath the service cut-off cover, a loose white wire (see picture) that appeared to be tack welded to the metal box.  It looked factory ( a ground) but, could it be a loose wire that welded itself to the box and is a/the problem?  It is now loose, but I will re-attach or cap it as necessary.  See pictures # 4 and # 5.  Should this be attached again?
So, there you have it.  I repaired a mechanical issue, and now have an electric/electronic problem.
As these were the only 2 wires that I disconnected this should resolve this issue, but i thought that they both had 3-wire connections.  My memory must not be working (shorted out?)
 
I have included a picture of the Honeywell Aquastat #6. 
I have include a picture of the disconnect with the wire attached   #5
I have include a picture of the disconnect with the wire unattached   #4
I have included 3 pictures of the wire hook up for the motor ( for clarity) #s 1, 2, & 3
 
Below is the Photobucket  link.

Help please

Mr. Lee Fix

 

http://s1268.photobu...e?sort=3&page=1



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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

http://appliantology...in-boiler-wtgo/


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#3 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:35 PM

I have the manual, but it doesn't begin to address the electrical short that I think I have.  As I'm clearly not the best at reading electrical schematics, but can after time, decipher what it is that they wrote I'm looking for a bit more guidance in resolving my dilemma.  Anyone with some suggestions, and patience is most welcome.

 

Mr. Lee Fix

 

In my mature years, I’m finally beginning to understand the Bible! For those who haven’t heard, the State of Washington just passed two laws:
• Same Sex Marriage
• Legalized marijuana
 
The fact that same-sex marriage and marijuana were legalized on the same day makes perfect biblical sense because Leviticus 20:13 says: “If a man lies with another man they should be stoned.” I just hadn't interpreted it correctly before.


#4 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

... and for others:

"Thou shall not share thy rod with thy staff."


.

one of my video productions: “Easter Seals: Walk With Me”

every day is Down Syndrome Awareness Day
"A Child Is Waiting" . Burt Lancaster . Judy Garland . 1962

RegUS_PatOff > www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw

#5 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:21 AM

I would say the white wire welded to the box would NOT be something normal and that would must definitely trip the ground fault and short things out.

 

Where does that white wire go to or come from?

 

The green should be the ground, the whites are neutral but could have power feeding back thru and if it had came loose from one o the wire nuts and shorted to the box it would weld itself to the box as you found it.


William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#6 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

Mr. Burk,

Good to hear from you.  I was hoping that the wire was the culprit, but I'm not sure.  This white wire has about 1" exposed from the white protective covering, it is straight, has never had a wire nut covering it, and apparently has been floating in the box for 5+1/2 years...that last bit seems hard to believe.  I did leave out one important item.  When I plugged the wire harness from the unit, into the wall outlet, the electrical contact was loose (no cover) and it MAY HAVE touched the side wire mounting terminals to the metal box (the terminals were not wrapped in electrical tape).  I can't be sure, but it may have happened.  I pulled out the electric receptacle, taped it, replaced it, but the problem persisted.  It's possible the wire tack-welded itself the first time and is now a recurring problem.  Voila!  The white wire was the neutral to the disconnect switch which was never properly installed by the company.  The screw was tight to the switch and there was a telltale mark where the wire was pinched.  Apparently it popped loose after all these years and welded itself to the box.  However, after fastening it to the switch the Aquastat now energizes, does 3 clicks, but does not start the blower motor and I still have no hot water.  The motor tests good again when an outside power source is applied, but maybe I incorrectly wired it back in as the unit doesn't work otherwise.   Can you confirm (in original post)?  So close, but so far away.

Mr. Lee Fix

The white wire (tack welded one) is in photos # 4 - unattached

The white wire (tack welded one) is in photos # 5 - attached



#7 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:13 AM

I'm not at all familiar with your system and haven't  had the time to look at the wiring diagram that RegUs posted for you so I really don't have a clue as to why your system isn't working.

 

Just looked and sounded logical that that white wire in the disconnect box should have been in some way attached to the switch to break power and had somehow came loose and welded itself to the box causing the direct short.

 

There is a possibility that shorting the neutral to ground took out some other component in your system, (possibly the controller if it has one?).

 

Maybe someone else that is more familiar with this system that you are working on can help you.

 

Seems kind of strange that you haven't really received any feedback to this except for RegUs posting the service manual, did you download it and study it to see how your system works?


Edited by Budget Appliance Repair, 02 July 2013 - 07:14 AM.

William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#8 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:42 AM

I'm doing that right now, but it's a little involved for me.  I'll try to isolate the wires and proceed slowly so as not to miss anything and hopefully I'll find the problem.  Yeah, I thought, "why no responses", but maybe heating/furnaces aren't on most peoples minds in July!  Oh, well at least it's not the a/c.  Thanks again.

 

Mr. Lee Fix

 

And here's the latest DARWIN AWARD WINNERS....

 

2012 Darwin Awards – The WINNER is definitely a  keeper!!!
Nominee No. 1:   [San Jose Mercury News]:
An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former girl friend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when the gun discharged, blowing a hole in his gut.
Nominee No. 2:   [Kalamazoo Gazette]:
James Burns, 34, (a mechanic) of Alamo, MI, was killed in March as he was trying to repair what police describe as a "farm-type truck." Burns got a friend to drive the truck on a highway while Burns hung underneath so that he could ascertain the source of a troubling noise. Burns' clothes caught on something, however, and the other man found Burns "wrapped in the drive  shaft."
Nominee No. 3:   [Hickory Daily Record]:
Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in December in Newton, NC. Awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith & Wesson 38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear.
Nominee No. 4:   [UPI, Toronto ]:
Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a downtown Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and plunged 24 floors to his death.? A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, fell into the courtyard of the Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday evening as he was explaining the strength of the buildings windows to visiting law students. Hoy previously has conducted demonstrations of  window strength according to police reports. Peter Lawson, managing partner  of the firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that Hoy was "one of the best and brightest" members of the 200-man association. A person has to wonder what the dimmer members of this law firm are like.
Nominee No. 5:   [The News of the Weird]:
Michael Anderson Godwin made News of the Weird posthumously. He had spent several years awaiting South Carolina's electric chair on a murder conviction before having his sentence reduced to life in prison. While sitting on a metal toilet in his cell attempting to fix his small TV set, he bit into a wire and was electrocuted.
Nominee No. 6:   [The Indianapolis Star]:
A cigarette lighter may have triggered a fatal explosion in Dunkirk, IN. A Jay County man, using a cigarette lighter to check the barrel of a  muzzleloader, was killed Monday  night when the weapon discharged in his face, sheriff's investigators said. Gregory David Pryor, 19, died in his parents' rural Dunkirk home at about 11:30 PM. Investigators said Pryor was cleaning a 54-caliber muzzle-loader that had not been firing properly. He was using the lighter to look into the barrel when the gunpowder ignited.
Nominee No. 7:   [Reuters, Mississauga, Ontario ]:
A man cleaning a bird feeder on the balcony of his condominium apartment in this Toronto suburb slipped and fell 23 stories to his death. "Stefan Macko, 55, was standing on a wheelchair when the accident occurred," said Inspector Darcy Honer of the Peel Regional Police. "It appears that the chair moved, and he went over the balcony," Honer said.
Finally, THE WINNER!!!:   [Arkansas  Democrat Gazette]:
Two local men  were injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday. Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock , were returning to Des Arc after a frog-catching trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole 's pickup truck headlights malfunctioned.
The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older-model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullets from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering-wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet the headlights again began to operate properly, and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge .
After traveling approximately 20 miles, and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the  testicles. The vehicle swerved sharply right, exited the pavement, and struck a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident but will require extensive surgery to repair the damage to his testicles, which will never operate as intended.
Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls off or we might be dead," stated Wallis
"I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this accident happened," said Snyder.
Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia (Poole's wife) asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck? Though Poole and Wallis did not die as a result of their misadventure as normally required by Darwin Award Official Rules, it can be argued that Poole did in fact effectively remove himself from the gene  pool.


#9 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:12 PM

Hope someone can help right away as I may have found the problem.  Does the red reset button on the HONEYWELL 8144 Intermittent Ignition reset when cold?  Mine has not operated for days, yet when viewed (it's clear plastic on one side) the button remains up, and the copper contacts remain touching (grounded?).  When I depress the button (as in resetting) the contacts open, but the button won't stay depressed and the slides back up and the contacts touch again.  Is this the normal operation mode?  Does it only work when power is applied (I don't think so)?  There are no problematic signs, but it won't stay engaged.  Which is correct?  Contacts touching or Contacts separated.

Your timely response is appreciated!

 

Mr. Lee Fix



#10 Mr. Lee Fix

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:53 AM

Well, for everyone not reading this post (and that's all of you) I solved the problem.  An improperly secured neutral wire that sprung and shorted out against the grounded, metal service box started the problem, and my first attempt at rewiring caused the second.  Needless to say, but i will, a complete re-wiring of all and thorough checking of the circuitry provided firing and hot wawa once again, and a static setting (for now) has it running smoothly.  Next regimen is the Bacharach test, sure to elicit some previously unheard poly-syllabic utterances, but that will have to wait a day or so (and I'll need some help!).  Thank you Reg US Pat Off for the download and Mr. Willie Burk for the confirmation of the tack welded wire.  Gentlemen...Thank you.  Case closed...for now.

 

Mr. Lee Fix

 

For the entrepreneurs and self-employed business men/women/whatevers, below I present the 5  Minute Management Course to aid you in your search for financial reward and freedom.  Your results may vary. A very Happy & Safe 4th of July to all.

 

5 Minute Management Course

now...here is everything we need to know in a handy document...
Forget about all of these day long management courses.
 

Lesson 1:
A man is getting into the shower just as his wife is finishing up her
shower, when the doorbell rings. The wife quickly wraps herself in a towel and runs downstairs. When she opens the door, there stands Bob, the next-door neighbour.
Before she says a word, Bob says, 'I'll give you $800 to drop that
towel. After thinking for a moment, the woman drops her towel and stands
naked in front of Bob, after a few seconds, Bob hands her $800 and leaves.
The woman wraps back up in the towel and goes back upstairs.
When she gets to the bathroom, her husband asks, 'Who was that?'
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'Great,' the husband says, 'did he say anything about the $800 he owes me?'
Moral of the story:
If you share critical information pertaining to credit and risk with your shareholders in time, you may be in a position to prevent avoidable exposure.
 

Lesson 2:
A priest offered a Nun a lift.
She got in and crossed her legs, forcing her gown to reveal a leg. The priest nearly had an accident. After controlling the car, he stealthily slid his hand up her leg.
The nun said, 'Father, remember Psalm 129?' The priest removed his hand. But, changing gears, he let his hand slide up her leg again. The nun once again said, 'Father, remember Psalm 129?' The priest apologized 'Sorry sister but the flesh is weak.'
Arriving at the convent, the nun sighed heavily and went on her
way. On his arrival at the church, the priest rushed to look up Psalm 129.
It said, 'Go forth and seek, further up, you will find glory.'
Moral of the story:
If you are not well informed in your job, you might miss a great opportunity.

Lesson 3:
A sales rep, an administration clerk, and the manager are walking to lunch when they find an antique oil lamp. They rub it and a Genie comes out. The Genie says, 'I'll give each of you just one wish…..'Me first! Me first!' says the admin clerk. 'I want to be in the Bahamas , driving a speedboat, without a care in the world.' Puff! She's gone. 'Me next! Me next!' says the sales rep. 'I want to be in Hawaii, relaxing on the beach with my personal masseuse, an endless supply of Pina Coladas and the love of my life.'
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The manager says, 'I want those two back in the office after lunch.
Moral of the story:
Always let your boss have the first say.

Lesson 4
An eagle was sitting on a tree resting, doing nothing.
A small rabbit saw the eagle and asked him, 'Can I also sit like you and do nothing?'
The eagle answered: 'Sure, why not.'
So, the rabbit sat on the ground below the eagle and rested. All of a sudden, a fox appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate it.
Moral of the story:
To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be sitting very, very high up.

Lesson 5
A turkey was chatting with a bull.
'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy. ''Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.'
The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree. The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch. Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree. He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.
Moral of the story:
Bull Shit might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there.
.
Lesson 6
A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold the bird froze and fell to the ground into a large field. While he was lying there, a cow came by and dropped some dung on him. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of cow dung , he began to realize how warm he was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug him out and ate him.
Morals of the story:
(1) Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy.
(2) Not everyone who gets you out of shit is your friend.
(3) And when you're in deep shit, it's best to keep your mouth shut!
THUS ENDS THE FIVE MINUTE MANAGEMENT COURSE







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