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Kenmore direct drive washer voltage drop puzzler


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9 replies to this topic

#1 tumblin'man

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

 Kenmore direct drive washer puzzler.  Model 110.29422801

 

Complaint:  The washer agitates, but on the spin cycle the water does not drain and the washer does not spin, but there is a hum, it is not silent.

 

With a test cord with its own capacitor connected to the motor, the motor will drain and spin just fine. 

 

With the lid switch bypassed, there is 120 volts to the motor on the agitate cycle and the motor turns.

 

With the lid switch bypassed, there is only 103 volts to the motor on the spin cycle and the motor does not turn.

 

Sorry, but I can’t remember exactly which terminals I tested for the above voltage checks at the motor, but I did it a few times in both agitate and spin. 

 

I tested the start capacitor with an analog ohm meter and the meter’s needle deflected as expected.

 

I did a test on the timer.  From timer terminal 2 (incoming black hot wire) to terminal 5 (blue wire which goes to run winding) the timer switch seemed to be opening and closing when it should (0.2 ohms in closed position).  But it also should be doing this in agitate, and it was.  So this was a waste of time, except I have never tested timers before so now I should do better next time.

 

I left the customers house thinking a new timer is needed, and realized I forgot to measure the timer switch #14 to see if this was closing during the spin cycle.  Does this sound like it is the problem?  Maybe it has a little resistance and is dropping the 18 volts?

 

I can’t figure out where else the unwanted resistance is for the missing 18 volts in the spin cycle. 

 

The wiring diagram is very similar to the whirlpool direct drive service manual wiring diagram, except that the lid switch is connected to the neutral wire and thus the motor will not run in either agitate or spin if the lid is opened.

 

Can any one offer a good idea on this?  It would be much appreciated.  I found a used timer for $27 and I would like to just install that and see if that makes the washer spin.

 

P.S.  It is not the drain pump, as the washer spins and drains with my test cord. 

 

It is not the lid switch, since agitate works and there is no voltage drop across the lid switch in agitate.

 

I was also thinking of just swapping another capacitor.  Is it possible that the capacitor is only good in one direction?  

Thanks anyone for your suggestions.



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#2 fairbank56

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

  Not likely the capacitor. More likely either of the two #14 timer contacts or the #2 contact which is the pressure switch bypass contact and is used for drain/spin and only the very end of the agitation cycle.

 

Uploaded wiring diagram

http://appliantology...re-11029422801/

 

Eric


Edited by fairbank56, 07 July 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#3 tumblin'man

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

Hi Eric,

 

Thanks for your reply.  Has this ever happened to you?  Was it one of the #14 contacts?  

 

Unfortunately I couldn't access the link you provided.  Were you linking to the actual wiring diagram?  Was there anything else that would help that you were linking to?  ( I do have a copy of the actual wiring diagram for the machine, but I couldn't get a readable copy scanned under 500KB, so that's why I didn't upload it.).

 

I ordered the inexpensive used timer and am anxious to try it and will let folks here know if that did the trick.

 

Somehow it seems that the hum is the run winding and the start winding may not be getting voltage during spin.


Edited by tumblin'man, 07 July 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#4 fairbank56

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

  The link works fine for me. It takes you to the download page and then you just click the download button to get the file. I don't recall having this exact problem but I think the timer is your problem.

 

Eric



#5 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:54 AM

I think your problem is the timer also.

 

Not a really good idea to buy used timers that you can't somewhat inspect, the contacts for spin and agitate are the ones the usually burn up and if you inspect the used timer you will most likely see burnt and pitted contacts on those same timer contacts that you are having a problem with.

 

The used timer will most likely work but for how long?   If this is your machine than not so much of a problem.

 

To verify a bad timer contact if it is one of the older style metal timers you can pull the cover off and see the burnt contact points and with an insulated screwdriver carefully push the top contact down so that it will contact the middle one and usually you will get the spin to start verifying that in-fact the timer is the problem.


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#6 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:39 AM

Timer part link, brand new, OEM, one year guarantee: http://www.repaircli...er=110.29422801

#7 tumblin'man

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

Thanks Willie and Samurai for you replies.  You're right, a new timer will last longer than a used timer.  Maybe I should  just order the new one.  

 

It's just that in the back of my mind, I'm thinking that despite the liberal return policy at repair clinic, I still would hate to buy electrical parts and then have to return them due to my improper diagnosis.  How many times can I do that before it's too many?  So the $27 spent for a chance to swap timers and see if that is indeed the problem seemed worth it to me.  

 

Wish I'd had the presence of mind to test timer contacts 14 at the time to see if they were opening and closing and if closing what the resistance was.  Next time I will measure this.  This timer seemed sealed, i.e. I couldn't peel off the cover to access the individual contacts.  

 

When I get home I like to take apart the bad parts and see what it is inside that is causing the problem.



#8 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

Looking at the picture of the new timer Samurai linked to, it's one of the new black plastic shell timer.  You really can't do much as far as taking these apart except for failure analysis.   There not like the good old metal case timers where you could take the thin sheet metal or plastic cover off and actually see and check the timer contact switch bank.


William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#9 tumblin'man

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:53 PM

Thanks Willie.  I thought that timer was sealed but wouldn't have bet the house on it.  



#10 tumblin'man

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:28 PM

I just installed the replacement timer and the washer is spinning merrily.  Tonight I'm going to unseal the old timer and look inside and see what those spin contacts (#14) look like and also measure the resistance across those contacts.  Thanks Eric, Willie and Samurai.   :thanks:






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