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ECR "equivalencies" for stoves (318185401 - CFEF357ES1)


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#1 CrisPid

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

Hi all.

Just FYI, I am new here. Maybe I am not in the right place but I need to start from somewhere.

All started with an ECR blowing in my wife's face (almost). It's a Frigidaire CFEF357ES1 stove. After digging in for the culprit, I discovered that the ECR (model # 318185401) exploded at one of the big black relay pins. The display is showing "something", but nothing useful (I will explain later). OK, no big deal. Relay changed (even if it was good - tested on the bench - because the pin was just pulverized in the explosion) with a new one. The 2 boards were nicely cleaned. Power up: the oven is still dead and the display is showing the same "something" but not useful image (I cannot call it information). Checking online and over the phone, I found some ECR's at ridiculous prices (between $150 and $500).

Having knowledge in electronics I start the debugging at a component level. In this way, I discovered that I have a short between the (+), (-) and another pin of the Samsung micro-controller (the brain of this ECR) - S3P8475XZZ-AQB5 with a software label V3.4. This part is made on order by Samsung so it's not possible to get one. Even if I will have one, you need to load a software on this part (which again it's impossible to find). So, it will not be possible to change this part.

Now, back to the entire ECR. Electrolux (the maker of Frigidaire and other brands) decided to replace this ECR model (318185401) and others with just one other model that has more parts on it and could be used on more models. On top of that, this new model is much cheaper (higher volume, I guess). For example in my case, I would need just to remove a resistor from this new board and it will strip down some functions from this new ECR and would be now compatible with my oven. Now the question is: what would be the ECR new model number that could be "adjusted" to be a direct replacement for my ECR model? The electrical drawing # for my oven is 318046743 rev A

Again, if I landed in the wrong place I am very sorry and anything would be good, even a redirect to another place.

Thank you.



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#2 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:35 PM

... Electrolux (the maker of Frigidaire and other brands) decided to replace this ECR model (318185401) and others with just one other model that has more parts on it and could be used on more models.
On top of that, this new model is much cheaper (higher volume, I guess). For example in my case, I would need just to remove a resistor from this new board and it will strip down some functions from this new ECR and would be now compatible with my oven.

 

where did you find this info ?

 


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#3 CrisPid

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:55 PM

Maybe it's not completely accurate but has some truth in it. Looking for my exact ECR, I found a place (don't remember exactly the name because I called a lot of companies at the time) saying that they will send me a replacement board that will look a little bit different so, I start asking more questions. At the end this (nice) guy, actually told me that they are buying a much cheaper model readily available, they are doing the "adjustments" to work with my oven and they are selling me for a price that is giving a decent profit for his company. So obviously, I was asking myself, why cannot buy that cheaper ECR directly by myself and save some money. I am not rich but I repeat, I know what I am doing when I am digging in electronics. Now, you have the complete story. Any ideas?

 

P.S. In case you are that nice guy, please be so kind and give me the ECR model number you are using, because I will definitely not buy from you. In my opinion even your price it's too high (for a $5 micro-controller burnt part; all the rest is good or could be fixed for peanuts). In case you are not that guy, please just ignore my dissertation. :wink:



#4 RegUS_PatOff

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:11 PM

have you seen this place ?

http://www.appliance...Model=318185401

 

Timer Repair Service: $116

In-Stock Reconditioned Timers: $136
Subject to availablilty. Some exceptions apply.

 

Please Note: We stock new replacement timers for Frigidaire ERC 318185401 at a price of $290.

The original manufacture's timer is prone to failure due to a bad solder joint.

Our replacement timer does not suffer from this design flaw.

We also warranty our parts for 1-year whereas the normal Frigidaire warranty is only 90-days.

 


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#5 CrisPid

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:40 PM

Yes I've seen it. It's way too much $290 + shipping. Even $116 + shipping it's expensive. Maybe I sound cheap, but in our area I could buy an entire working stove for something between $150 to $250 and if I don't like the metal casing I could keep mine and transfer anything else from the one I am buying or I would have a lot of spare parts. But I am still hopping to find a decent solution even if I am using more brain power to compare and "adapt" the ECR's. Also, the time it's not critical, because the rest is working fine; just the oven it's out, so no more cookies and pizza. :sad:

So, let's save the Planet and not scrape an entire nice looking oven for just a $5 micro-controller. The oven it's still young, only 6-7 years old.

If I will find a good solution be sure that I will share it with everybody here. It's a nonsense all this consumerism and how we are trowing out things that could be fixed for (almost) nothing. But isn't this the whole idea of what people are doing here: trying to find solutions on this kind of forums????  :cool:



#6 CrisPid

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

SORRY, I did a mistake. The whole story it's about ECM = Electronic Control Module not ECR. My mistake, I don't know how I end up writing this wrong. Did anybody knows how to change/edit the topic title?



#7 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:55 AM

Actually you're not really that far off, (the manufactures call them an ERC - Electronic Range Controller).

 

All the places I check for parts, (15 different sites), all show part# 318185401 as NLA - No Longer Available, except for one says available special order $455.73 which is totally ridiculous.  Looks like the only choice is to find a used one somewhere or a re-builder.

 

Usually a couple of the sites will show other part numbers that sub'ed to this part but none even come up with that info.

 

What's the part# on the sticker on your original controller, is it 31885401 also?


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Eureka, CA 95501

#8 CrisPid

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

...

What's the part# on the sticker on your original controller, is it 31885401 also?

 

Thank you for the ERC vs ECM mention. Maybe this is the reason I mixed them up. Again, my fault.

 

Yes, I know it's NLA. This is the reason I need to find out what other controllers are out there that could be "adjusted" (= stripped down from some functions) to work with my oven. For this I need an electronics technician (minimum) with experience in this area of range controllers. I know it's hard to find but nothing it's impossible these days with the internet connection. I was saying Electronics Tech (min) not to be un-respectful with all the other guys out there that are repairing all kind of things without having a title. It's because an Electronics Tech (min) could debug electronic boards at the component level and they will know the similarities and differences between 2 boards. At the module level everybody would say that I need to change the ECM / ERC that I already know. In my case, I need to dig in deeper.

 

Funny thing that you asked that question in the end. Just wondering why, because you are very right to ask something like that. On the label attached on the plastic frame of the controller it says something else (I don't have it with me in this moment; I will post this tonight or tomorrow morning; I am at work now). I didn't mentioned this before to not complicate the things and also because doesn't make any sense. In all the literature from different sources, all are pointing to the model I mentioned (318185401) and none to the model printed on the label. I even checked pictures of the 2 models and the one looking like mine is not the one from the label. Strange thing but somebody at the factory could have been mixed up the labels.

 

OR MAYBE (just a wild thought before hitting enter) it's the answer I am looking for. Worth investigating that number too. Thank you for asking that question.



#9 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:59 AM

Seems strange that on a range that is just 8 years old parts are already NLA, but seem to be seeing more of that now days.  Even worse it seems they discontinued this parts about 3-4 years ago because I found another discussion on another board from back towards the middle of 2009 were someone was looking for this same part# and it was already NLA.

I'm pretty sure a current board can be found that will work in yours.  One difference I have noticed on some of the pictures it seems that maybe your original board may not have a double line break relay, (to break the L2 power leg to the elements when range is off), and the newer boards have the DBL relay but would not be utilized in your situation.    This is probably just differences in government regs between Canada and USA.  Might be the opposite way also, looking at your wiring diagram it looks like you have the DBL relay used on your board to break the L2 common power to the elements.

This page: http://www.appliance...odel=cfef372cs2

of ApplianceTimers re-builders shows for a model# CFEF372CS2 which all the customers listed on that page use ERC#318185401 except the last one uses 318184400 which is still available and is available on Ebay from a re-builder with a very excellent reputation, (CoreCentric Solutions), Auction# 171014786170 $77.55 + FREE Ship.

I'm pretty confident that part# 318184400 will work OK in your range.

You will have to peel your overlay off your old ERC and reuse it on the new one, I've never had a problem with peeling these off and reusing them, (some other around here have). Peeling it carefully and slowly using a little heat from a hair dryer should make it come off with no problem, (I've never even used the hair dryer to heat any of the overlays that I have removed and reused).
 


William Burk (Willie)
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Eureka, CA 95501

#10 CrisPid

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

....

What's the part# on the sticker on your original controller, is it 31885401 also?

 

 

 

Crazy schedule. I didn't look for this number yet. Sorry.

 

 

 

....

Might be the opposite way also, looking at your wiring diagram it looks like you have the DBL relay used on your board to break the L2 common power to the elements.

This page: http://www.appliance...odel=cfef372cs2

of ApplianceTimers re-builders shows for a model# CFEF372CS2 which all the customers listed on that page use ERC#318185401 except the last one uses 318184400 ...

I'm pretty confident that part# 318184400 will work OK in your range.
...
 

 

Just wondering why you are calling this relay DBL (double). Has just a switch: NC (not used), NO, a common pin and 2 other pins for the coil. Just curious.

 

On that page could be an error somewhere. The picture is totally off comparing with what I have. The location of the buttons (overlay will not fit) and also the type of display are much different so this could be a completely different controller. The errors could be also when they are saying about using the ERC#318185401. Maybe in the picture is ERC#318185400 and that will not be good for me. Worth investigating other pictures from other sites. This would happen in the weekend (crazy schedule).

 

Anyway, thank very much for the ideas.



#11 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 06:28 AM

They call that relay a DBL relay (Double line break), only because it breaks both L1 & L2 hot lines to the elements when the range is off.   Older ranges usually always had one common side of the elements always hot even when oven was off - in that type of configuration if the t-stat or control board relays weld closed the element stays on with no control.  The DBL relay doesn't actually open/break both L1 & L2 power legs, just the L2 side, the L1 side is controlled by the bake and broil relays - thus both legs open/break when off.

 

It's a safety UL/CL thing that is pretty much seen on all the new ranges now days.

 

That picture on the page that shows the 318184400 ERC is not the actual picture of the correct part - just a generic picture.

Here's a much clearer picture shown on a 1"x1" grid so you can till actual dimensions, you will find that it is the same as yours and the buttons are in the same positions as yours along with the status leds, (preheat/oven/door lock).

 

http://www.repaircli...8184400/1155448

00800130.jpg


William Burk (Willie)
Willie's Budget Appliance Repair
Eureka, CA 95501

#12 CrisPid

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:18 AM

OK, now everything make sense (DBL relay, the picture that was off) and is absolutely correct. This is what I have on the board and this is the way is working. I have experience in electronics not I am not used to abbreviations in this field of activity. In general, in electronics when you say "double" you expect to see 2 switches (one for L1 and one for L2) not just 1. But now, I understand why they are using that name for this kind of application. Thank you for the clarification.

 

The only thing that is not good is that the CoreCentric Solutions are not shipping to Canada.  :sad:

 

And here it is the model # on the label attached to the plastic frame of the controller:

 

Spitfire Controls Inc.

SF5301-005BM

Model no: 318184400

Control# 00-0004 (Electric)

120VAC 60Hz

 

So, you were right again. When I saw that the numbers don't match and I did a search to see the pictures for the 318184400, I think that I ended up looking at that "generic" picture that was showing something different from my module and I took it for granted never searching more for this particular model (318184400). Now, based on your information and my sticker, I am becoming more confident that is the right part to order.

I will start looking for this one. Maybe I will have more luck.

I will keep you in the loop.

Thank you.



#13 CrisPid

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:10 AM

Besides the fact that they are not shipping to Canada, there is something else that is puzzle me. In the picture of this item [(CoreCentric Solutions), Auction# 171014786170 $77.55] they are showing the board without the DBL relay (which is an important safety feature). Is this picture right or again it's just a generic? I tried to ask them but they are not taking questions. :sad:

So, should I forgot about this safety feature in case I am ordering the ERC # 318184400? Honestly, I prefer not to.



#14 Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:23 AM

I don't see where on the Ebay auction from CoreCentric for part# 318184400 it shows a picture of the relay side of the board - the RepairClinic picture shows the 318184401 board without a DBL relay

 

Out of 14 sites that I check for parts 7 of them have a picture of the board, (only 4 show the back/component view).

 

Out of those 4 that show the components on the board, only RepairClinic shows it without the DBL relay, (it could be an older picture of the board at sometime before the board was updated with a DBL relay - the reason I expect this to be so is the part number used to be 318184401 for this board which I can find 3 on Ebay that show a picture of that board part# and they all show without the DBL relay).

 

Found another source at a cost of $71.58 + Shipping but it appears they don't ship to Canada either, (www. partstore. com - I've ordered rebuilt parts from them before and they are sourcing from CoreCentric Solutions also).

 

Sometimes the rebuilt board part#'s have an "R" at the end, search for 318184400R and you may find somewhere else.


Edited by Budget Appliance Repair, 21 September 2013 - 06:30 AM.

William Burk (Willie)
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Eureka, CA 95501

#15 CrisPid

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:40 AM

The picture with the relay side is not on eBay; I was trying to point out the p/n from them but the picture I saw was elsewhere. I already figure out the "R" thing. Thank you anyway.

 

So, to conclude:

--> The 318184401 - it's the old board without the DBL relay (it's odd; usually the numbering it's going up for new rev's, not down; but you never know what's in the designers mind)

--> The 318184400 - it's a good replacement for my original 318185401 but we don't know the differences (both have the DBL relay).

 

My time frame it's up to Christmas for fixing the oven.

 

Thank you for your help. I will continue digging. If something new come up I will keep you informed.






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