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kenmore washer leaking 110.27731600


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31 replies to this topic

#1 electro_doc

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:57 PM

I have checked this washer top to bottom.  I see water on the floor and I'm sure it's coming from the washer but it only happen sometimes and so far never when I'm there.  I took the front off and told the customer to keep an eye on it and see if they can spot the leakage when they do the wash.  They just called today and said the maid saw it shooting up in the air about 4 inches from the bleach dispenser on the rim of the washer tub cover.  Has anyone ever ran across this?  I'm going tomorrow to check it out but I'm not sure what can cause this.  Any Ideas would be helpful.  Thanks 



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#2 electro_doc

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

I have checked this washer top to bottom.  I see water on the floor and I'm sure it's coming from the washer but it only happen sometimes and so far never when I'm there.  I took the front off and told the customer to keep an eye on it and see if they can spot the leakage when they do the wash.  They just called today and said the maid saw it shooting up in the air about 4 inches from the bleach dispenser on the rim of the washer tub cover.  Has anyone ever ran across this?  I'm going tomorrow to check it out but I'm not sure what can cause this.  Any Ideas would be helpful.  Thanks 

I'm thinking maybe the pump is intermittently not pumping out all the water and when it spins, some how the waters cyntrifical  force pushes the water up and out the whole in the bleach dispenser and it shoots over the top and onto the floor.  Maybe an obstruction in the pump or maybe a timer glitch.  It only happens once in a while though.  Come on guys, venture a guess, any help is appreciated!



#3 suampman

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:14 PM

Doc, you may be onto something. I had a frigidaire that did that exact thing. The pump did not pump the water out and the machine started to spin and water came right up over the tub. Take the pump off and see if there is somthing in there. See if the pump spins freely. Good luck.

#4 electro_doc

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:24 PM

Doc, you may be onto something. I had a frigidaire that did that exact thing. The pump did not pump the water out and the machine started to spin and water came right up over the tub. Take the pump off and see if there is somthing in there. See if the pump spins freely. Good luck.

Thanks for the encouragement suampman, that makes more sense to me than the timer malfunction.  Any other input appreciated!  I'll let you know what I find out tomorrow.  thanks



#5 electro_doc

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

Here is the part number of the tub rim:

Tub Ring W10445870

 

It has a little tiny hole in it on the lip right in front of the bleach dispenser.  This is the hole that the maid said the water was coming out of.  I've been working on these washers for all my life and I'm 65 years old and I never noticed this hole.  Anybody know what it is for.  I put a rubber plug in it and hope this will solve the problem.  I still don't know why it was doing it but we will see if this takes care of it.



#6 suampman

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:46 PM

Did you check the pump yet?

#7 electro_doc

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:57 PM

no but the washer doesn't do it all the time.  I even filled the washer up to extra large with water only and then stopped it and put it in spin.  It spun out all the water and didn't spill a drop.  I can't figure it out.  If it was because the water wasn't going out it would have surely done it when I did that don't you think?  I'm still not sure what is causing it but in the mean time I plugged up that hole in the lid and so far haven't got a call.  I'm hoping.



#8 fairbank56

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:14 AM

  It's not supposed to spin the water out. It should drain for about 2 minutes without spinning and then go into spin. You must place washer in agitate mode for about 15 seconds first in order for neutral drain to work when it goes into drain/spin. This may be the problem. If it always starts draining and spinning at the same time, the neutral drain mechanism needs replaced.

 

Eric



#9 electro_doc

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:16 PM

well got a call today.  leaking again.  It doesn't normally spin with water in the tub,  I forced this scenario to see if it would leak if this happened.  I thought it might be doing that so I tried pumping and spinning at the same time.  When I did spin it with water in the tub, it pumped out all the water and continued gaining speed until all the water was out and didn't leak a drop.  I was also leaning toward the brake.  I thought maybe the brake wasn't holding and the tub was going around during agitate.  The brake however seems ok as well.

Perplexed??????? 



#10 electro_doc

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

  It's not supposed to spin the water out. It should drain for about 2 minutes without spinning and then go into spin. You must place washer in agitate mode for about 15 seconds first in order for neutral drain to work when it goes into drain/spin. This may be the problem. If it always starts draining and spinning at the same time, the neutral drain mechanism needs replaced.

 

Eric

thing is it doesn't always do it, in fact I've never seen it do it so I forced it to spin while it was full of water to see it it would leak if I did that.  The thing is it didn't leak so I'm thinking even if the neutral drain doesn't work that this would not cause a leak.  I have not been able to recreate it while I've been there.  I'm thinking just to pull out the transmission and spin tube and check the neutral drain and the brake.  I'm out of ideas!



#11 sh2sh2

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

, in fact I've never seen it do it so 

 

I have not been able to recreate it while I've been there.

 

there is your problem, can't fix what is working when you are there.  The whole water shooting out of that hole seems crazy to me, in a earlier post i think you said your getting this info 3rd hand from a maid or somthing.  Sometimes i find when u cant find anything wrong its because somebody else is feeding false info.


Edited by sh2sh2, 19 October 2013 - 08:35 PM.


#12 electro_doc

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

yes but there is water on the floor and I'm pretty sure they aren't putting it there just to give me a hard time.  Your definitely right though, I can't fix it if I don't see it or any sign of it.  All seals dry, under trans dry.  Centering spring in back on bottom in place.  Pump dry, hoses dry, tub top seal and tub dry.  Not coming from drain hose backing up or anything like that.  Really strange.



#13 fairbank56

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:23 PM

  Maybe if it spin-drains with a full load of clothing in it, it will cause some water to sling out but just testing it with water only, it won't.

 

Eric



#14 electro_doc

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

Yes, that's an idea!  I've only been testing it without a load..  They say it doesn't matter if it has a lot or just a little clothes.  It just does it when it feels like it.  I'll think that's what I'll do.  Try to recreate it with clothes in the washer.  Thanks for helping me brain storm.  I've never seen the neutral thing in the trans go bad to where it is intermittently not working.  I guess it's possible but I've just seen it either good or bad.  It does seem like that not working could cause it.



#15 electro_doc

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:23 PM

ok well I finally got lucky and reproduced the leak.  It seams at one point on the timer the washer goes from wash to spin without pausing for the 15 sec to put the trans in neutral. It only happens in one spot and only in one cycle.  In the normal cycle right after the wash.  this causes the water to rise and try to go out the top, but the lip of the top stops it from going out and it is forced out of the seam where the tub cover clips onto the outer tank.  I have deduced that a new timer will fix it and will try that tomorrow.  I sealed up the joint where the tub cover meets the tub and so it doesn't leak anymore but to actually fix the problem I need to replace the timer.  I'll let you know how that goes.  99% sure this will fix it.  thanks for all the brain storming help.

 

Doc



#16 fairbank56

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:40 AM

  That's not how it works. The gearcase gets set to neutral drain during the first few seconds of the agitation cycle. One reason the motor pauses between wash and spin is because the motor must stop in order to reverse direction. I don't think it's the timer but if the problem occurs at only one point in the timing cycle every time and never happens in the other cycles, that is odd. How long is the pause? If it's long enough for the motor start switch to close but not long enough for the motor to completely stop, I suppose it could cause the neutral drain to not function properly. Trying a new timer is certainly a lot easier than changing the neutral drain pak or the gearcase.

 

Eric


Edited by fairbank56, 23 October 2013 - 07:52 AM.


#17 micabay

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:31 AM

How much water is being found on the floor?

 

Coming out of left field here with this one but, what about the water valve? Is it alined with the tub properly?  Is it slow to fill?  Could be clogged with sediment, causing it to act as if it has low water pressure.  ie water leaking by the valve and over filling?


Edited by micabay, 23 October 2013 - 08:32 AM.


#18 electro_doc

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:16 AM

  That's not how it works. The gearcase gets set to neutral drain during the first few seconds of the agitation cycle. One reason the motor pauses between wash and spin is because the motor must stop in order to reverse direction. I don't think it's the timer but if the problem occurs at only one point in the timing cycle every time and never happens in the other cycles, that is odd. How long is the pause? If it's long enough for the motor start switch to close but not long enough for the motor to completely stop, I suppose it could cause the neutral drain to not function properly. Trying a new timer is certainly a lot easier than changing the neutral drain pak or the gearcase.

 

Eric

well how does it work then.  what makes it pump and not spin after the agitate cycle.  If you stop it while it is agitating and put it in spin, it will pump and drain at the same time.  What causes it to only pump and then spin when the water is all out?  



#19 fairbank56

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:40 AM

  During the first few seconds of agitation, the spin gear cam gets set to a specific position and held there by the neutral drain trip lever. At this point, the latch that will hold the spin gear cam during drain, to prevent spin, is not engaged. After agitation, the motor stops so that it can reverse direction. When the neutral drain plate reverses direction, the latch will grab and hold the cam so the spin pawl cannot engage the spin gear. The spin pawl is held away from the spin gear by the cam which rotates freely around the hub of the spin gear. After drain, the motor stops again. The latch is a weighted device and is thrown away from the cam when the motor stops. When it starts again, the latch does not engage, the spin pawl rotates off of the cam and engages one of the bosses on the spin gear. Complicated to explain, easy to see for yourself. This is looking down on the spin gear as though you can see through it.

 

Eric

 

NeutralDrainExplanation.jpg



#20 certified tech group 51

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

If you can find it ............Module # 4....Lit....787772...Rev. B is what I gots..........Fairbanks has listed the good stuff............... .but the whole picture must be viewed to understand how the transmission works............................"Aggressive Spin".....Unit will start to spin same time it is draining...................Should be.......Drain, Pause, Spin...................






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