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Amana NTW4600yq


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19 replies to this topic

#1 curjones

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:26 PM

First off. how does the top come off? I seem to have trouble with this more than any thing else, can trouble shoot most electrical, but cant find the clip, snap or way to take off the top (lol)

I pulled the tech manual out . I have no leds in status section. Have the diagnostics led on pcb.
tested the output of pcb at j2 (page 13) got the 13 vdc, with harness to shifter connected and with it off got voltages out of board. got dark on me.

going to check out harness, has any one got ideas or had simular problem

cant go into service diagnostics mode.

leaning toward bad shifter. thanks in advance

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#2 curjones

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:56 PM

One thing has perplexed me about this. In the trouble shoot of control board it says make sure the board is installed correctly. Looking at the picture this board may be upside down. The j-2 connector was on the bottom. How is the dial knob connected. Can you install it upside down?? dont know whos been in it before me or if they have this problem at factory. reading off page 16 test 4. "2. access the main control board and visually check that all connectors are inserted all the way. 3. Visually check that the main control board is properly inserted in the console.
If both visual checks pass go to test 1.

#3 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

These washers practically troubleshoot themselves BUT you have to get into diagnostic mode and get the error codes.  Easy to do:

 



#4 fairbank56

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:39 AM

  Vertical Modular Washer top removal:

 

VMWtopremoval.jpg



#5 curjones

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

Thanks fairbanks, I have never has to remove thoes screws to get a top off, people always say dont you have to remove them, I tell them no thats a hinge. I knew it had to be simple, but I'll ask before I force.  Are the pictures you posted from a download if so can you give me a link.  I need a good picture of the pcb installed.  it may have been installed upside down, ot someone has messed with it.

 

I cant see any status lights on front.  have the tech sheet cant  see lights.  I'm at the verify control board and make sure shifter is not interfering with control board.  

 

Plan to check the harness, will remove control board from mount and explore it's position.



#6 curjones

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

Samurai.  the vid link picture, where the finger is pointing there are no lights there, press start nothing, nowhere on any selected dial, dead.... have led on pcb and power is confirmed.  Going to go at it again .  learning all new.. shifter how it works.  In training and having fun..  Just when you think you know something they have to replace reliable with solid state, miniture devices..  Most of this stuff doesnt like water and moisture, but they use it any way.

 

I just had to purchase a all in one ATC. 75.00, probally bad pressure switch component, that would have cost 25-30.   Cant complain too much about it,  i'ts also job security..  if it aint broke I dont get paid or have work..



#7 curjones

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

Great vid, need the stand design or how to make, that is high speed low drag.  Just getting set up as a shop and business is picking up fast.  Need lift table of some sorts so I aint got to keep bending over.  will check back later.  Thankns for all the help.



#8 fairbank56

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:25 PM

  The pic is from the original service manual provided when this washer design came out in 2010. The control board in that manual is different than the one in your washer. I don't see how it's possible to install the board upside down as there are two mounting clips on the top and two screw holes on the one side. The cycle knob shaft wouldn't line up either if it was upside down. If you have power to the board but have no status lamps, it appears to me that either the plastic actuator that operates the power button is broken, or the board is bad.

 

Eric



#9 curjones

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

I could not seing it as being upside down either, but the instructions made me think it could happen.  It is as you stated impossible to do that it does have a stem coming out of board.

 

the picture in the tech sheet shows it NOT in the installed position.  J2 will be on bottom.

 

I have checked all the wires going to shifter. no shorts.

 

I checked voltages AT shifter, harness disconnected and got a 5 vdc between pink, (rpm input) and grey grnd

 

went to control board disconnected J2 tested the board and have a 5vdc signal from j2-3 grey/grnd to J2-2 pink

 

The tech sheet does not tell me if the board is suppose to have this or not,  it says 13vdc from black wire j2-4 to j2-3 (grey)

 

I have worked with many diffrent variable signals, but not sure how this works or starts.

 

Does the board, start or have a 5vdc signal  (sort of a zero) but this confirms connection through opt sensor.

 

as the rpms go up part of the 13vdc is applied to the 5vdc and tells it  feeds back speed.

 

I used lots of 4-20 Ma in my maintenance days.

 

As I typed this.  I dont think It should have 5vdc (on the board between pink and grey) (with harness disconnected, )  think I have a shorted out control board, ground signal 5vcd to input feedback (rpm) on the board.

 

Trying to confirm and learn.



#10 fairbank56

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

  Yes, you should have 5vdc at J2 pin 2 (pink) with connector disconnected. This is a digital logic level provided via pull-up resistor on the control board. The rpm sensor in the shifter will "pull" this level low (0 volts) each time the optical sensor light path is interrupted by the rotating blade  inside the transmission. This creates a digital square wave to the processor (switches between 5vdc and 0vdc). The frequency of the square wave is dependent upon speed of rotation of the transmission and is calclulated by the processor to determine rpm. If you monitor J2 pin 2 while wire harness is connected and rotate the tub very slowly, you should see it switch between 5vdc and 0vdc. You should also have 5vdc on J2 pin 1 when in spin mode and 0vdc when in agitate mode.

 

Eric


Edited by fairbank56, 17 October 2013 - 03:24 PM.


#11 curjones

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:16 AM

Ok, that's great inside info.  I will check that out.  I believe I have a bad contol board..  Got this feeling it could be the shifter.

So I need to hook up some test leads and do the op sensor test. will have to get the print and look again.  Got cabrio in my mind right now, another problem child.  Going to check post for help with that just got back from that call.



#12 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

Is the red LED lit on the control board?  If not, and you have a good power supply to the board, then board is bad.  



#13 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:04 AM

  Yes, you should have 5vdc at J2 pin 2 (pink) with connector disconnected. This is a digital logic level provided via pull-up resistor on the control board. The rpm sensor in the shifter will "pull" this level low (0 volts) each time the optical sensor light path is interrupted by the rotating blade  inside the transmission. This creates a digital square wave to the processor (switches between 5vdc and 0vdc). The frequency of the square wave is dependent upon speed of rotation of the transmission and is calclulated by the processor to determine rpm. If you monitor J2 pin 2 while wire harness is connected and rotate the tub very slowly, you should see it switch between 5vdc and 0vdc. You should also have 5vdc on J2 pin 1 when in spin mode and 0vdc when in agitate mode.

 

Eric

 

 

This is good diagnostic info for the Evernote toolbag, Eric.  Where'd you get this?



#14 curjones

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:07 PM

Here here, on Eric providing the good diagnostic info, that's what I want to know, How the componet works.  It's getting into electronics, a class I have not taken yet, I do eclectrical mechanical devices pretty well, have to learn circuit logic and flow.  I am familiar with pulse width modulation, using a square tooth gear, and magnetic field that makes or breaks.  On off signal is called digital.  When I saw that they called this sensor a opt sensor. it did not click as light for opt.  I have used photo electric eyes to senses a product in position, or passing a point to count.  The photo sensor/ or opt sensor is doing this same thing.

 

The opt sensor can work off of light or dark,,, if I'm guessing this right the one on this has either some reflected light back to the sensor, or has a way to determine how far the light has travled.  When the fin passes it senses the high spot, then it sees the low spot.

 

I also worked with lots of variable/proportional signals to control valve opening and flow control of liquid or even heat.  4-20 Ma was most common but some controls were 5 -15.  5 would be like 0 volts or zero, valve off or closed.  If power was off the system would not get back this 5 volt or 4 Ma signal in the feedback loop and that would stop it from working or starting.

 

This is why I want to know why the tech sheet is saying you need to check out shifter, bad shifter has some way of interfering with the control board giving the all clear or all good to operate and run.

 

Errror occurs, and there is no RESET of that code in the memory, that code if stored in EPROM will stay in the mind of the machine no matter how many times you kill power, its like a cancer cell that won't be cured. 

 

If the programers did not provide a way to reset, the memory of the error, then you have no choice but to get a new board with out the cancer or bad memory of that failed pump, shifter, or long drain problem.

 

Just get another board and send us our money creates cash flow, probally can be corrected but only by a programer of the onboard logic memory.

 

I asked in my other post, on a cabrio, if you can reset the fault codes or clear them.  Did not see this function in this whirlpool tech sheet,  I did see it on a GE washer that I was working on recently.

 

The led I could see was green,  will check to see if there is a red, also think there was a blue led as well, was not lit up.



#15 fairbank56

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:05 PM



This is good diagnostic info for the Evernote toolbag, Eric.  Where'd you get this?

 

  Figured it out on my own with wiring diagram, testing and my 37 years experience as an electronics service technician with the Dept. of the Navy.

 

 

I asked in my other post, on a cabrio, if you can reset the fault codes or clear them.

 

  Yes, you can clear the fault codes in these washers, it's in the tech sheet.

 

  The optical sensor is on the top part of the shifter. There is a gap between the emitter and receiver. The sensor fits up into the rectangular hole in the bottom of the transmission. An outer ring on the transmission housing that has slots in it rotates through this gap. The slots make/break the light path to operate the circuitry that is integral to the shifter.

 

Eric



#16 curjones

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:25 PM

 

  Yes, you can clear the fault codes in these washers, it's in the tech sheet.

 

 

Eric

 

Have read the sheet I hve on cabrio and nowhere is there how to reset.  My sheet says NOTE: all codes are retained.  I have not seen it in this amana/whirlpool sheet either but I cant say I have read it line upon line either.  someone sent me a how, but that didnt work, they said start /pause  twice unplug 5 min, mine has a pause/cancel and the codes did not clear.



#17 curjones

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:33 PM

Now after figuring out a cabrio problem, I went back to the Amana here, and did the little tinkle, twinkle, thing again, first attempt nothing, I kept at it and low and behold...... It workiey...  Now I try my hand at some jethro bodine syfering on them codes and do some Knots, and using both my toes and fingers it added up that binary, code light system, is trying to tell me that thar lid switch HAS a Failure TO COMMUNICATE..

 

I went ahead and examined the inner workings of this switch and see if you own one of these, go ahead and make it a stock item on you laundry shelf, and parts shelf.



#18 fairbank56

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:34 AM

  Were talking two different washer designs here. The 4600 is a VMW, the Cabrio in your other thread is not. As far as I know, you can't reset the codes in that Cabrio although I do believe on some of these models, after a certain number of wash cycles without errors, it will clear the codes. I don't have the tech sheet for the 4600 but all the VMW's Iv'e worked on can have there fault codes reset. Typically, while in fault code display mode, you rotate the dial til all status LED's are lit or blinking, then press and hold the start/stop button for 3 seconds. As I recall, clearing codes is not required for the washer to operate normally after replacing a faulty part though.

 

Eric



#19 sh2sh2

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

On the VMW running the calibration cycle also clears out the code



#20 curjones

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:08 AM

Thanks , for the info,  I had swaped out another units control board so it carried it's codes to the washer I'm working on, hope they clear.








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