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GE Profile Side by SIde Water Dripping from Condensation

Condensation Defrost Cycle mold

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11 replies to this topic

#1 agalvez

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

I have a side by side unit model PSC25PSTA SS, with the dual evaporators, which it seems that from the time the warranty expired, builds up mold all over the inside of the refrigerator section.  It also builds up enough water condensation, that it actually leaks out the bottom of the door, enough to cause damage to our floor.  We have to keep a rag laying on the bottom, to absorb the moisture, and is changed regularly,  around every three to four days. I have the temperature set to 0 on the freezer side, and 37 on the fridge side.  The temperature display is almost never at this setting.  Most of the time the temperature is 10 to 14 degrees higher than the settings, on both sides.  The freezer has an automatic ice maker, which every few days I have to break up the ice in the tray, since it looks like it has melted somewhat, and solidify all together into one giant blob of ice.  The same thing happens to the ice cream.

 

About two years ago, I downloaded the service manual from this site, ran the diagnostics, and everything checked out, including the thermistor resistance measurements.  I read about a similar problem a lot of people were having with these profile's units, and the suggestion was to replace the mother board which I did, but to be honest did not really help.

 

I suspect two issues are at play here.  The first one has to do with the internal programing of the temperature control cycle, which in order to get a favorable energy star rating, the control program runs it as little as possible, with the widest temperature spread they can get away with.  The second could be the defrost cycle running too long, heating the interior too much, and overwhelming the cooling system.  These are just theories, and would like to know if anyone has heard this from any of the GE techs?

 

If anyone has any suggestion on how to rectify this problem, even if I have to run the stupid thing all day, I will, because is either that, or just get a new refrigerator, but I can tell you, that it won't be a GE product!

 



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#2 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:07 PM

replace ALL thermistors, regardless of test results. Don't cheat, no short cuts, replace them all (make the connections waterproof). Then, we can go from there.

Edited by DurhamAppliance, 08 January 2014 - 10:11 PM.

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#3 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:27 AM

Thermistor part link:  http://www.repaircli...55X10025/914093

 

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#4 agalvez

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

OK will do.  I purchased them a while ago, but decided not to change them due to the readings on the original units indicating the proper resistances.  I'll come back with the outcome in a few days.



#5 agalvez

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:49 PM

Here are the results of a weekend's worth of work; After cleaning out the complete refrigerator of the mold in both the freezer, and fridge compartment, moved all the food to our spare, I proceeded to replace the thermistors.  Every time I removed one, I would check it with a reference calibrated electronic thermometer which I have, and every time they checked out.  I started to get a little dishearten from my findings, but proceeded to replace all the units as suggested anyway.  I also decided to check the back of the unit, since I had out.  I removed the back cover, and it turns out that the "Jelly Roll" condenser was completely plugged up with lint.  It was a major undertaking to clean it out, due to its poor design and placement, but I managed to clean it out to almost new condition.  Well, it has been a week since the repairs, and the unit is running better than ever!  The temperature in both compartments holds within a couple of degree's max, and there is no more condensation dripping down the walls, and out the door, hurray!

 

Apologies for not checking the condenser out first, but last time I did, it looked clean, but after thinking about it, that was over a year ago.  I tend to lean more, that the problem was the plugged condenser rather than the thermistors, since it had absolutely to air circulation at all, or maybe a combination of both.

 

By the way the GE Profile unit that I have, is the one with the dual evaporators, hence the manual I have was incorrect about the locations of the thermistors.  Two of them are located on the evaporators themselves, and two in the walls.  It would be nice to have the actual service manual for a PSC series instead?

 

Thank you all for all your help!!



#6 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:21 PM

How did you test the thermistors? What temp did you test them? Btw all thermistor controlled ge fridges have thermistors on each evap. Between the thermistors and jelly roll condenser considering your symptoms, I would still lean towards a bad thermistor. That is the reason I suggested replacing them despite readings.

Edited by DurhamAppliance, 20 January 2014 - 09:22 PM.

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#7 agalvez

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:48 PM

Apologies for the delayed response, but have been extremely busy with my other work duties.

 

Anyway, I tested the thermistors, using a secondary RTD, with a digital readout.  I would insert each one in ice water, wait a few minutes for stabilization, verified that the water was at 32 degrees, and then measure the resistance of the thermistor with DVM.  I then moved them to chilled water, and ran the comparison again, and then at room temperature, each time waiting until the temperature readings, and resistance readings stabilized.  I checked them twice, but it turns out that the unit on the fridge evaporator, was around 15 percent off, and it was not as linear as the rest.  So I do agree with you that it was a thermistor problem, thanks!

 

I now have another problem, which might be related to the defrost system.  The unit is building up a significant amount frost ice on the refrigerator side wall, the wall that splits the fridge and freezer.  The freezer side seems to be ok with no ice at all.  I noticed that there is no heater coil on the fridge side evaporator, and it is also about 1/8 the size of the freezer evap.  There is however, a small rectangular opening between the freezer and fridge wall, with a duct that leads to a small box fan, and the airflow points to the fridge evaporator.  I suspect this fan draws in warm air from the freezer side heater that defrosts that side, to also defrost the fridge side.  I tested the fan with an external 12V power supply, and it works fine, but when I run the fan test, this fan never runs.  Since I don't have the proper manual for my model number, I 'm wondering if this fan has another command set to make it run an individual test?  Also, is my assumption correct about the way this refrigerator performs the defrost cycle, since there is no heater on the small evaporator of the fridge side?  If the command set is universal for these types of Profile units, can I then put the unit in defrost mode, and once I do, what is the estimated time until the processor turns on the fan, since I wouldn't think it would turn it on right away?  Could my problem be something completely different rather than with the defrost cycle?



#8 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:16 AM

regarding manual and fan issue.... let's go back in time... a time I will never forget because it was during a period when I first tackled this fridge (the model I fought was dual evap but did not have an inverter like yours).


.... that manual suggested I buy the diagnostic aid. It's the fridge with the silly LCD touch screen and limited diagnostics....I'll upload it..
see if this works....http://appliantology...psw-lcd-manual/
btw reason I called the fridge similar to this and that continues to haunt me "the bastard" is because it's a tweener model....dual evaps, but no inverter, about 2 fans in the freezer and three in the fridge, LCD touch screen that has sucky diagnostics ...for instance "all fan mode" doesn't turn on all fans...like the ff evap fan..I know, it had me chasing my tail for weeks.

Couple of things... in the quote, you will find a link to the manual.

Secondly, I was able to turn on the evap fan using the diagnostic aid but not from the on-board diagnostics. I think they used old software from the time GE fridges had only one fan in the ff section or the engineers and the designers were on different pages. These fridges have 2-3 fans in the ff section. All fans" mode in the on-board diagnostics turns on all fans but not the ff evap fan... I think they simply forgot this model has multiple fans in the ff section and didn't update the diagnostic software. With all the time I lost chasing my tail trying to figure out why the fan wasn't working, I'm not so sure who is actually the bastard, the fridge or the designer. I think your fan is good... use the 9v battery test.

I must, however thank the bastard for it/he is the reason I purchased the diagnostic aid kit which has saved me enormous amounts of time and made up for all the lost time/money I spent working on this thing.

I am glad you found a tangible reason... ie non-linear ff thermistor. Many times when I advise people to replace all thermistors or to not to use short cuts when testing thems, they ignore the advice and simply reference the thermistor/ temp chart and not use the ice water test. see http://appliantology...ls/#entry283035 for a long-winded explanation.

Your update and it's attention to detail will be used as a cautionary tale to help others better understand the reason behind this advice. Thanks!

Let's hope you finally were able to slay this beast when many others before you (including me) have, at times, failed.

Edited by DurhamAppliance, 01 February 2014 - 06:23 AM.

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#9 agalvez

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:23 PM

Thank you Grand Master, truly appreciated!

 

So after referencing the "technical Service Guide" which you so graciously provided, it turns out that I was completely out in left field regarding my theory of the extra fan.  That fan is actually used to provide extra cooling into the beverage center in the middle of the fresh food side door.  It has nothing to do with the defrost cycle. 

 

I believe what might be happening is that when I replaced the thermistor on the fresh food evaporator, and re-installed the cover that houses both fans, I might have dislodged the drain tube that is used to remove excess moisture from the vent, and this water is ending up on the wall as ice.   Stay tuned.



#10 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:49 PM

ah ha! that's the other fan I couldn't remember, 3 fans in ff section : Evap, custom cool and beverage center fans. And, if I recall, two fans in the freezer making for a total of 5 interior fans and including condenser fan, 6 total.

Edited by DurhamAppliance, 01 February 2014 - 03:50 PM.

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#11 agalvez

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:29 PM

The tube was not dislodged, and it turns out that I'm building up ice on the wall way above and forward of that drain anyway, so there is something else going on.  Another observation is that the evaporator has no ice build up at all.  If you are looking in the fresh food compartment, all the ice is building up on the left lower wall, which separates the freezer and fridge side, but like I said there is no ice buildup on the freezer side.  Any suggestions?



#12 DurhamAppliance

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:43 PM

I am starting to wonder if these things have design flaws.... here is a discussion involving a Ge monogram model but is relevant to your fridge http://appliantology...all#entry274410

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