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Ruud Air Handler UBHJ25J11SUZA1 not working - how to troubleshot

Ruud Air Handler p/n: UBHJ25J

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53 replies to this topic

#41 donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:19 AM

No, it's the motor on the ah that is not working.  Compressor seems to be working fine.

 

I did not replace the thermostat.  Once I realized that I wasn't getting voltage due to a loose wire, I put the old thermostat back together.  I can try a new thermostat if you think it would help.

 

I did not change any connections in the fan sequencer or CT, but will double check the connections.  Will also try re-seating the motor connections.



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#42 Radio Loco

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:28 AM

 When I turn the fan switch on, I can hear the motor groaning as though it wants to turn but it does not turn.  When I turn the A/C on, the compressor turns on but the fan doesn't turn, and I can hear the same "groaning".

 

Clarification here. Does the OUTSIDE condenser unit compressor and outdoor fan motor work?


I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#43 donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:29 AM

>Clarification here. Does the OUTSIDE condenser unit compressor and outdoor fan motor work?

 Yes.


#44 donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:45 AM

So I checked connections and reseated the connectors to the fan motor.  (I took some videos but waiting for them to upload)

 

1. Turned fan on only -   There is a "groan" every 5-10 secs or so, but the fan never turns on.

 

2.  Turned on AC -  After about 5-10 seconds, the compressor comes on.  The fan makes the "groan" sound every 10 secs or so, then finally comes on around 30 seconds later.

 

 

So, looks like the AC works, though it's back to what was going on a few weeks ago where the fan would turn on after the compressor.  Back then, it would lag by a few minutes sometimes, now it's only about 30 seconds.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by donfagan, 20 August 2014 - 06:11 AM.


#45 donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

Here is the video for the AC:  https://plus.google....298508392297455

 

Here is the video for the Fan only:  https://plus.google....298508392297455



#46 Radio Loco

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:12 PM

It definitely sounds like it struggling to start. So would you say we are back to the original pre-failed circuit breaker problem?

The next step would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on the BLACK hot wire that powers the motor. You can measure the amp draw right above the circuit breaker on left side. This will tell you if the motor is drawing excessive current while trying to start. But again, you need to see what the NLA on the motor body sticker says. However, if it drawing some outrageous amps, then it's probably safe to conclude that the motor is bad.

Also check for a voltage drop as the motor is trying to start. Meter to VAC, leads across top of circuit breaker. Is the voltage dropping significantly as the motor is starting? Does it stay at 240 VAC consistently?

Edited by beam current, 20 August 2014 - 01:14 PM.

I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#47 donfagan

donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

>It definitely sounds like it struggling to start. So would you say we are back to the original pre-failed circuit breaker problem? 

Yes, exactly.

 

 

I'll check the voltage drop.

 

Don't have a clamp on ammeter but will see if I can check amp draw with my multimeter.



#48 Radio Loco

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

I don't think you will be able to check the amp draw with that particular meter in the pictures.

If the motor is getting power up to the Molex connector, then it's safe to say your motor is shot.

I consulted an excellent nationwide technical support rep locally, he watched your video, read through the threads and concurs that the motor is bad.

He also stated that the motor and control module (ICM/ECM set-up which has 2 seperate components), will need to be replaced together. Price for replacement will be fairly expensive also. You may want to consider upgrading this old unit, depending on repair estimate.

The component panel will come out to gain access to the fan, you will have to figure that out.

So I believe you have 3 options:
1. Remove the motor yourself and take it to your local HVAC parts house. They will have to find a suitable substitute due to age of the equipment. Your AH does not have a circuit board controller, but the modern ECM fans will. So now you can expect a more difficult installation. Re-wiring, mounting board, etc.

2. Calling in a professional Ruud HVAC contrator to complete the repair.

3. Upgrade this whole system. Crunch your numbers.

What do you think?
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#49 donfagan

donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

I was kind of afraid of that...

 

I'm guessing my best options are either 1 or 3.  For 1, maybe I can get lucky and find someone who will sell and older style (non-circuit board) motor.  Is re-wiring the motor an option?

 

For #3, I presume I need a pro to do the install since there will be freon involved - is that correct?



#50 donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:40 PM

Also, for #3, what specs would I need to use to price out a compatible new model?  I know the motor is 3/4hp and the cabinet is 25".  

 

And thanks also for checking with your Ruud contact.


Edited by donfagan, 20 August 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#51 Radio Loco

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:46 PM

It is an option, however do you think you have the technical ability to do it?

Yes you need a license to do sealed system repair/ replacement. Federal law.
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#52 Radio Loco

Radio Loco

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  • 248 posts
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Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:00 PM

Call your local parts house. Give them the AH model #. They may be able to search their database for that particular motor or may need you to remove and take it in. Each house is different. Just have all the info off the equipment handy when you call.

If this were a PSC with cap, it would have been so much easier. But an old ECM motor with integrated controller makes this a very complicated repair now.

My pleasure. Jeff C. is one of the BEST in the business.

Good luck and if you have any more questions, please post here and ask.
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#53 Radio Loco

Radio Loco

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  • Chief Appliantologist
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  • 248 posts
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  • Flavorite Brew:Ginger Ale. On the rocks.

Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:28 PM

Sorry, not motor. For AH replacement, you would need to call in a pro. They need to see the equipment. Cabinet size, fan cfm, electrical, vertical cabinet, txv or piston metering device, outside unit compatibility, lineset compatibility and size, R22 vs R410 or newer refrigerant blend, return opening size and location, supply plenum size, and supply duct size. Probably more too.
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#54 donfagan

donfagan

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

OK, thanks.






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