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Fisher Paykel DD603 solenoid clicking and soft beeping


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12 replies to this topic

#1 mikeh

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 02:35 PM

Hi all,

 

I have been reviving a Fisher & Paykel DD603 recently and everything was going fine. I have replaced the power filter since a track had lifted/corrded and the resin coat had lifted elsewhere on the board.

 

However, since fixing the top drawer drain issue (was failing to completely drain due to the drain hose being blocked after an initial cleaning), the top drawer now makes a rhythmic clicking noise (seems like all the solenoids are pulsing/clicking simultaneously) and at the same time the piezo beeper on the control board makes very soft beeps in the same rhythm (about 2 clicks/beeps per second). The beeps are a lot quieter than the more obvious ones (power up, drawer open, cycle complete, etc.). This only occurs part-way into a main wash cycle. After an initial fill and the beginning of a wash this appears to happen. The wash cycle proceeds for another 10 minutes or so before the main motor stops but the clicking/"beeping" continues. I didn't want to leave it in this state in case the solenoids burn out (or other horrors). So I drained the tub and have since left it.

 

It runs the test cycle from hardware diagnostics successfully without this issue, same with a rinse cycle.

 

I have swapped the control boards between top and bottom with no change in behaviour.

 

Any ideas, because I'm all out? :(



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#2 Radio Loco

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:59 PM

Check the lid motor connectors on the power filter for corrosion and proper seating/orientation/wire-terminal crimp integrity (give a gentle tug). They should be the 2 or 3 pin connectors on the EMI board. If corroded, give them a good shower with contact cleaner and an acid brush or tooth brush. Power removed first, of course.

Then check that the lid actuators are assembled correctly on the slides and yokes (for both drawers, especially the top). Replace them if they appear slow. This may be the clicking noise you are hearing.

Also check all connectors on the main pcb for corrosion and proper seating/orientation.

Do you need to push the power button to open a drawer?
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#3 mikeh

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Posted Yesterday, 11:01 AM

Thanks Radio Loco.

 

I hope you're looking for a challenge :)

 

So, I checked all the connectors, the main board connectors are fine since it's a new board. and even swapped the drawers.

 

Sadly, now it means that the bottom is the affected unit with the same outcome. This means it can't be hoses, wiring loom, controller (since I'd swapped that earlier), lid actuators (since it's now happening on the bottom rather than the top and the top now works fine), power filter (since it's now using the lower connector rather than the upper). This leaves motor, motor loom/wiring, sensors, existing wiring (dispenser, water softener, fan, LEDs).

 

The drawer _was_ working prior to clearing up the blockage (except for the inability to drain properly).

 

There was one point where I had foolishly left it plugged in while I had the wiring loom/hose cover off and it gave me a good belt when I got too near the motor. I thought nothing of it but I guess that could have shorted to something (but what?) causing damage. It can't be the controller though since I've swapped them and the other drawer still works fine.

 

Thanks for your suggestions so far, hopefully you can lead me further :)



#4 J5

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Posted Yesterday, 01:23 PM

i would put the old mains filter board back in for test

 

its also possible it could be the display which is easy to swap between drawers



#5 mikeh

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Posted Yesterday, 05:13 PM

its also possible it could be the display which is easy to swap between drawers

 

This is an integrated unit, but sure, tomorrow I'll also try swapping the interface that sits between the display and the buttons and see if that makes a difference :) Thanks.

 

I'll have to drag the old mains filter out of the trash, but given the drawer has been swapped between upper and lower I can't see how that would be the case as the upper now works and the lower does not (meaning the issue has followed the drawer), the filter has separate sockets for both upper and lower connections.


Ah, damn, actually, I _can't_ drag the filter out of the trash, that was collected today :/

 

So, here's hoping it's not the filter :)



#6 mikeh

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Posted Yesterday, 05:16 PM

the interface that sits between the display and the buttons

 

Between the _controller_ and the buttons, gods, can't type today to save myself.



#7 Radio Loco

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Posted Yesterday, 05:52 PM

"So, I checked all the connectors, the main board connectors are fine since it's a new board. and even swapped the drawers.

Sadly, now it means that the bottom is the affected unit with the same outcome."


Hi Mike. So I understand you correctly, do you mean the issue is now solely on the bottom drawer and the top drawer functions 100%?

And, if so, this occurred after you swapped the drawers, and nothing else?
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#8 Radio Loco

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Posted Yesterday, 06:46 PM

Also, did you run the hardware output diagnostics test? Since you have the integrated (badge) controllers, you will have to check the binary encoding readback and translate using the chart in the service manual? Do you have the manual? Search the downloads section at the top of the homepage here or request it in the service manuals request section.

Running these tests first is the best approach.

You can also run a single 5 minute test cycle or a continuous cycle test (good for intermittent issues). These will test the lid motors, fill valve, wash motor, element, and drain motor. The other components (all actually) can be checked for voltage and resistance with a DVOM.

Also, can you provide the full part number of the power filter board you installed please? And any voltage/current specs (non-US) that may have come with the part. And what is the voltage reading at the power outlet that feeds the unit?

Can you pinpoint that the clicking/ beeping noise is centralized at the electronic controller only, or possibly at different components situated close together?

Edited by Radio Loco, Yesterday, 06:58 PM.

I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#9 Radio Loco

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Posted Yesterday, 07:27 PM

"I hope you're looking for a challenge"

BTW, I'm always looking for a challenge, although, one must now be very careful on which of those challenges he or she chooses.

Dang, that sounds all Samurai-ish, don't it? ;)
I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#10 mikeh

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Posted Today, 07:00 AM

So I understand you correctly, do you mean the issue is now solely on the bottom drawer and the top drawer functions 100%?

And, if so, this occurred after you swapped the drawers, and nothing else?

 

Yes. I pulled the drawer-faces off, removed the button panels from each, pulled the drying vent (since they differ top and bottom), moved the previously-top drawer to the bottom and the previously-bottom drawer to the top, replaced the vents, covers, wiring, hoses, drawer-faces, and powered up again. The issues that were plaguing the top drawer now haunt the bottom.



#11 Radio Loco

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Posted Today, 12:53 PM

Then this indicates that the integrated badge isolator (now in bottom position) is defective.

 

Did you run the diagnostics tests as stated above? Did you get the service manual?


I think this will work. I once saw it on a cartoon.

Or, on the other hand.....

Troubleshooting the appliance's complex electro-mechanical systems is the methodology in which one must, by using analyitical techniques and the process of elimination, determine the cause or causes of a specific failure. Rarely does this cause of a failure directly present itself for you to see.

So.....

To be better equipped to troubleshoot, you will need:

1.) To follow this: Safety first and foremost. Trust your instincts.
2.) Basic hand tools.
3.) A decent DVOM meter. Buy one. Borrow one. You need one.
4.) Last, but certainty not least, common sense. Most of us have it. Slow down and use it.

Now, let's have some fun!

ZIG:
Hope is the power that gives a person the confidence to step out and try.
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability you have.

N.M.:
It always seems impossible until it's done.

#12 mikeh

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Posted Today, 02:39 PM

Also, did you run the hardware output diagnostics test? Since you have the integrated (badge) controllers, you will have to check the binary encoding readback and translate using the chart in the service manual? Do you have the manual? Search the downloads section at the top of the homepage here or request it in the service manuals request section.


I have run the all the tests (incl. element, with water in the tub), none of them generate the same clicking/beeping. The closest similar sound is when running the rinse aid dispenser, but that's slower and the motor/valve-click louder than the noise generated when the issue occurs.
 

Running these tests first is the best approach.


Agreed, sadly none cause the problem issue.
 

You can also run a single 5 minute test cycle or a continuous cycle test (good for intermittent issues). These will test the lid motors, fill valve, wash motor, element, and drain motor. The other components (all actually) can be checked for voltage and resistance with a DVOM.


The 5 minute cycle runs without issue, as does a standard rinse program. I have run delicates, quick and regular wash and all three cause this to occur, I haven't run a heavy wash but I expect a similar issue.
 

Also, can you provide the full part number of the power filter board you installed please? And any voltage/current specs (non-US) that may have come with the part. And what is the voltage reading at the power outlet that feeds the unit?


I believe it's 525958MP. I'm in the UK, 230-240v mains, if that was the detail you were after? If you need something more or different then I'm going to have to pull the drawer out again and I'd prefer to avoid that for the short term. I was hoping that it wouldn't be this as the top runs successfully, and that top drawer also ran successfully on the bottom earlier. I appreciate the art of diagnosis often points the finger at the unsuspected, but if I can hold off pulling the drawer until I have to then I'd appreciate that :)
 

Can you pinpoint that the clicking/ beeping noise is centralized at the electronic controller only, or possibly at different components situated close together?


The beep noise from the controller is similar in volume and frequency to the "squeal" that occurs when the fill motor runs. Quiet, high-pitched, very definitely from the controller, most probably from the piezo speaker but could be from another component, the upper drawer emits similar tones at similar times. The clicking appears to be, if not all, then multiple valves/pumps on the front of the drawer (detergent diverter, rinse aid, brine pump, etc.). Pinpointing exactly which may be a challenge.

It appears to start part-way into the program, after the fill is complete, maybe when it starts its main wash cycle (the wash cycle continues for a reasonable period, maybe 10-15 minutes, then ceases, leaving nothing but the click/beep). I'm afraid to leave it doing that for too long in case this is damaging.

 

As for the challenge comment... I aim to please, this may prove interesting.


Then this indicates that the integrated badge isolator (now in bottom position) is defective.

 

Did you run the diagnostics tests as stated above? Did you get the service manual?

 

Sorry, I'd failed to hit Post earlier today :/

 

Yes, I have the service manual.

 

Is the isolator the box that sits between the controller and the badge? And if it is, how do you propose it would have this effect and only at particular parts of the cycle?



#13 J5

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Posted Today, 03:03 PM

my next guess is you have a bad dispenser solenoid

 

if you disconnect the dispenser plugs does the noise disappear ?






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