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Neptune commits HariKari after final rinse.


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23 replies to this topic

#1 cgaudio

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 07:42 AM

Greetings, oh Great One.

I just purchased a used Maytag MAH3000AWW that doesn't spin, and read with interest your solutions and also followed your link to Leodave's R-11 and Q-6 cookout. (I'm beginning to smart in a specific nether region.) My situation is a little different. My machine commits HariKari instead of spinning. It shuts off before the last of the water is pumped out. When you push the start button, the water pumps out but the on light does not come back on, and the machine quits as soon as you take your finger off the button. Before I got to your page, I had determined that both the switches (door lock indicator and spin enable) were ok. I replaced the wax motor even though it metered 1800 ohms, give or take. When I opened it, it was scorched inside, so probably a good thing.

Drive system diagnostics indicate no problems there.

While my R-11 and Q-6 looked ok, an e-mail on Leodave's site said maybe the Q-6 is shot, so I replaced it with a 600V triac, leaving in the R-11, which metered 3700 ohms, give or take, up to specs. I also replaced Q3, Q9, and Q-17 with the 600V triac.

No problem to replace the triacs.

Except just no results. That's right, the thing still wouldn't spin.

I tried fooling the machine by holding in the door light control, holding down the inner door latch, and closing both the door lock and spin enable switches, while pushing the start button with the machine set on spin. No good.

So I went back to square one, using the troubleshooting sheet that came built into the machine. It passed all the tests until I ran across this sentence: "...if you have continuity between the spin enable switch and connection P3-7, replace the control." Is this another sample of Maytag's ineptitude? The continuity from the control to the spin enable switch all takes place south of the control, so why replace it if the wire is in one piece??

The wax motor will deploy if I plug it into an extension cord, but when I manually push the start button, using the above method to fool the machine, the plunger does not deploy even though I meter 117VAC to it and keep the button down for up to 2 minutes.

My R43 is metering 18000 ohms instead of the 75000 it reads. ViGrOr It looks just fine. (For your fans, here's a page with the resistor codes here:
http://www.rdrop.com...et/resistor.htm)

I await your word that will allow me to fix this pig and relieve the nether smarting, while becoming a lesser Appliance Samurai God in my wife's eyes.

Thanks immensely for this site!
-Chuck

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#2 mastertech011

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 04:09 PM

"if you have continuity between the spin enable switch and connection P3-7, replace the control." Is this another sample of Maytag's ineptitude? The continuity from the control to the spin enable switch all takes place south of the control, so why replace it if the wire is in one piece??"

Think of the continuity test not as a confirmation of continuity in the circuit alone but a process of elimination of that circuit beingthe causual failed circuit. It simply tells you that if there is continuity then that is not the problem, thus you need to replace the control board. Ive seen some of the control boards with burned circuit traces so just replacing a triac and resistor may not do the trick. Ive also seen bad Motor and Control board cause a no spin condition too. Ive gotten good used control boards on Ebay for 35.00 and new updated motor and control boards for 65.00.. ... moma told me.. you gotta shop around, oh boy, you gotta shop around.



#3 cgaudio

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 06:42 PM

From Mastertech011:..."It simply tells you that if there is continuity then that is not the problem, thus..."

Yeah, now that makes sense. I decided to have my board repaired, so we'll see where that takes us.

I had a good suggestion to check the pump, the theory being that the pump was obstructed and was taking too long to empty, so was timing out. Such an easy fix. Alas, not in this case.

To update you, checked my R9, R51, R52, R53, R143, and R162 today, found R53 (cold water) a little short. It metered 528 ohms and reads 3900 ohms. Not burnt. I had already upgraded the corresponding triac, Q3. The R53 will get handled on the rebuild.

I appreciate your help! Will keep you updated.
Thanks a million!
-Chuck

#4 GuidofromCT

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 05:53 PM

does the door lock light illuminate? Have you pulled out the motor control baord and looked for charred remains . Also if the fuse on the motor control is open replace both control and motor. Good Luck.
yo, just do what ya gotta do!

#5 cgaudio

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 03:45 PM

GuidofromCT asks: "does the door lock light illuminate?"

Door lock light does not come on. I can fake it by holding in the microswitch. Likely it doesn't go on because the wax motor does not deploy, even tho it's getting 120VAC. It's a new wax motor that will deploy when I plug it into an extension cord. (The thing has to be getting it's spec'd amps because the R-11 metered 3900 Ohms and the triac (Q-6) is a new 600V.)

I ran the diags for the drive system, which included a look at the fuse. All ok.

I would really like to be able to bypass the wax motor and both those switches. Someone suggested jumpering 1&7 of conn3. I tried that but the machine still wouldn't spin.

Thanks to all who are scratching your heads over this mess!!
-Chuck

#6 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:58 AM

[user=910]cgaudio[/user] wrote:

GuidofromCT asks: "does the door lock light illuminate?"

Door lock light does not come on. I can fake it by holding in the microswitch. Likely it doesn't go on because the wax motor does not deploy, even tho it's getting 120VAC. It's a new wax motor that will deploy when I plug it into an extension cord. (The thing has to be getting it's spec'd amps because the R-11 metered 3900 Ohms and the triac (Q-6) is a new 600V.)

 

While this seems a logical deduction, the observable facts indicate otherwise: the wax motor is NOT getting enough current to expand the plunger.  Go where the facts lead you, grasshopper.


#7 cgaudio

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:23 AM

The Samurai speaketh: "the observable facts indicate otherwise..."

Good point. When I depress both microswitches, the machine should act
as if the wax motor is deploying, no? Still no spin. 

Granted, the wax motor issue needs to be addressed (will put the old
one-that works- back in) ,  of itself, it gets me no closer to my
goal (of getting spin).

Thank you, oh great one,
-Chuck


#8 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:31 AM

[user=910]cgaudio[/user] wrote:

Good point. When I depress both microswitches, the machine should act
as if the wax motor is deploying, no? Still no spin. 

 

Check the imbalance circuit, a series of three switches around the tub.  Ohm it our from the wire harness.  If any one of those switches is open or if there's a bad connection there, the washer will not spin. 

I assume it's pumping out correctly and that we're testing the spin function on an empty drum?

If the balance circuit is good, replace the machine control board.


#9 cgaudio

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 11:17 AM

The Great One saith:"
Check the imbalance circuit, a series of three switches around the tub.  Ohm it..."

Received the rebuilt board, inserted it. No difference: on light died when it got to Spin.

Ohmed out the out-of-balance circuit (ConnP2-4 to conn P3-1, right?) Closed circuit.

Going to try the old wax motor, per our earlier conversation.

Thanks to all you head-scratchers!!
-Chuck


#10 cgaudio

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 12:54 PM

More news, the wax old motor does not deploy,  (BTW, the old one
is a red and the new one is a black plunger: old meters about 1100 ohms
and the black 900 ohms.) Neither deploy in the machine, but both do
when plugged into an extension cord.

Now here's some info that may help: someone suggested jumpering 1&7
of Conn P3. He said it bypassed the lock assembly and let him get the
wash done. I tried that. It didn't work.

I am trying all this with the new control board.

I am about to try some percussive maintenance.

Thanks, all!
-Chuck


#11 mastertech011

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 01:43 PM

Make sure you have the correct control board. There were about 5 of them for the 3000-4000 series alone.

#12 cgaudio

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 06:37 PM

Mastertech011 writes:"Make sure you have the correct control board. There were about 5 of them for the 3000-4000 series alone."

That's scary! I'm working with the board I feel is sound, but I still
have my old one (I got a rebuilt board to try.)  More on this
later.

Let me update you: I found out I was checking the balance circuit
wrong. I didn't disconnect the connectors from the control board, so I
was getting a closed circuit (through the board). When I checked it
correctly, it was open. When I open the top, there are 2 fairly big
blue wires running diagonally across the top of the machine. This is
the balance circuit . Tracing these northwest, where they go through
through into the top of where the control panel is, there is a
connector. I popped that and checked for continuity-none.

So it had to be one of 3 switches. Naturally, the two easiest to
reach-it wasn't. The tub displacement switch is open, but I can't see
how to get it out. I need some help here.

When I jumpered the tub displacement switch, I still couldn't get the thing to spin!!!

As soon as I get the switch replaced, I will try it again with the
machine together. (not trying to fool it by holding the door closed
switch in etc.)

If I can't get it going, then I'll switch back to my old board. I'll let you know.

Thanks all!
-Chuck




#13 cgaudio

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:14 AM

Took the tub displacement switch out, fixed it,
NOW the machine stays on when it goes into spin cycle.
But it doesn't spin.

We are getting somewhere. :):):)

I saw the chart with the metering voltages at http://www.goetjen.com/maytag.htm. That's my next project.

Puzzling over the wax motor thing. It won't spin when I trip both switches and hold in the door sensor and hold down the inner latch, so I don't think another wax motor will solve the no-spin problem.

Thanks to all who have waded this far through my problems!
-Chuck

#14 cgaudio

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 10:22 AM

More:
Now (since I've fixed the tub displacement switch), when the machine hits spin cycle, it continues to agitate throughout, then shuts off normally.

I jumpered (ConnP3 wires 1&7) over the wax motor and switches. Still no spin. Agitation.

Thanks, All!
-chuck

#15 cgaudio

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 03:20 PM

Went over the troubleshooting chart for no-spin in the on-line manual. Couldn't find any reason that the thing wouldn't spin. So I put my old board back in put it all back together. Threw a load of clothes in, and...

...Holey Moley! It worked just fine!! And Boy, did it spin!!:):):)
Post Mortem
So, if you're looking for a lesson from my wonderful adventure, here it is: In reading all the trouble folks were having with the control boards of these Maytags, I jumped to the conclusion that I had a problem with it too, even though I had no burnt R-11 or Q-6. Lesson: Don't do dat!

In fact, I had a bad spin enable switch, which I found with my rusty ohmmeter, I mean trusty ohmmeter, and fixed easily. And a bad tub displacement switch, which I found the same way. I took it apart, could find nothing wrong, except it worked right when I hooked it back up. Go figure.

Not sure if I had a bad wax motor. I opened it up and found some scorching inside, so it was the only thing I replaced, other than using a rebuilt board temporarily because I lacked confidence in mine. (Every little problem I ran across, I was afraid it was my board causing the problem. Working with a known good board helped a lot.) I appreciate Roy Goetjen for this great help. http://www.goetjen.com/home.htm)

Finally, I can't thank enough The Samurai for this site and for his valued personal input, and the help of mastertech011 and guidofromCT. Thanks to you, I now feel qualified for my white belt in Maytagology.

This grasshopper learned a lot here. Humble thanks to all, even those who read and couldn't think of a suggestion.

-Chuck

#16 mastertech011

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 07:42 AM

Glad to hear you have it running again. You certainly cant hurt it by replacing the wax motor bad or not. I figure its good insurance to replace it every couple or 3 years just for grins. I have a couple spares myself.

#17 cgaudio

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 07:55 AM

Thanks to you for helping!

I've been giving some thought to placing a 600ma fast blow fuse in front of the wax motor.

But right now I'M SO HAPPPPY:):):) just to have it running that I don't want to open it again.

Thanks again!
-Chuck

#18 cgaudio

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 08:14 AM

Machine fixed, running like a champ. Now I am ready to commit Hari Kari!

Honorable wife complains that she cannot soak my (fishing) stained tee shirts with this front loader. I have looked for soaking directions in the product brochures, but find none.

She wants me to sell this Neptune and buy one she likes, I guess a top loader.

After all my work on it, I feel it is better than new, what's more, I feel qualified to fix it again, if necessary.

Oh, great Samurai, does your wisdom extend to women, or can you tell me how to soak clothes with this Neptune.

Thanks!
-Chuck




#19 mastertech011

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 08:39 AM

It has a stains cycle which will be as close to a soak as it gets with a front loader. Look for the button on the console that says stains and press it... it will give an extra wash and it will have long pauses between each tumble to act as a soak/stain cycle. Going back to a top loader these days would be near insanity, but dont tell her I said that... LOL

#20 Samurai Appliance Repair Man

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:35 AM

You can't get more stained clothes that I do:  grease, blood, mucous, dog poop, and all manner of other stains, both biological and abiotic.  Never have a problem getting stains out because we use high quality detergents. 

http://fixitnow.com/...-detergents.htm

Here's a little secret: the only thing that cleans your clothes is the water.  Yes, the water.  The detergent's job is to make the water wetter by breaking down the surface tension and emulsifying hydrophobic compounds like grease.  The washer's job is to make sure the detergent and water slurry contacts every fiber of the clothing.  There's nothing more to it than than.  So, if you get a new washer but use the same detergents you are now, you'll have the same results.  Doesn't matter if it's name brand or if you've always used-- the fact is it's not doing its job.  Fix the right problem. 





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