Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now or use the parts search box:

Parts Search

Learn appliance repair at online the Master Samurai Tech Academy.  Learn more.  Earn more.

FAQs | Repair Videos | Academy | Newsletter | Podcast | Contact

  • Announcements

    • Samurai Appliance Repair Man

      ***READ THIS PRIOR TO STARTING A NEW TOPIC***   05/02/2016

      Topics with the complete and accurate model number in the topic title will get priority attention. You can validate your model number by entering into the form on this page: http://www.repairclinic.com/?clearLs=true For more help on using Appliantology effectively, please see this page:  
appliancehammerchewer

Wire question -- aluminum and copper

23 posts in this topic

Konichawa Sensei

I have the above range.

It's a GE badged as Kenmore, I think.

Two of the elements have gone bad -- one was bad when we moved here 2 years ago and we lived with it.  Now another one has fritzed....  Spouse won't tolerate.

Here's my question:

I can get two of the elements for about $120 and replacement looks easy. PART# WB30T0006 or WB30T10047

But, is the life of the other two larger elements limited?

I can't read the date code from the model but I know you can..... ha ha.

Should I order the bits and keep the beastie or scrap it to our local recycler/rebuilder?

Advice is appreciated.

p.s. I am a returning amateur but first time poster.  I fixed my own washing machine for $11 and scraped knuckles based on great advice from you sensei.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now!

The WB30T10047 can be gotten here,  but   the WB30T0006 did not come up.  Might want to check that number??  That is a nice range and Sears.com shows 9/99 so it is not very old.  You will need to make your own decision about repair or replace.  We cannot see the condition of the unit nor can we predict what else may bite the dust or when.  If it was mine, I would repair the Range.   Pegi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks!

I popped the top just to make sure I could do the job easily enough.

One of the elements had a small break so I tucked it into the rest of the element and it appears to be fine (I doubt it'll last).  The other one (the one which was bad in the first palce) appeared to be broken in many places.

I will replace the other and see how I do.

Thanks!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are very welcome.........:cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you may want to check the bottom of your pans to make sure they are perfectly flat. if not you will have hot spots in the element and thes elements dont like that. get a ruler and hold it to the bottom of all your pans toss them out if they are not perfectly flat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kenmore's 911 source is roper and the replacement parts are now supplied by g.e.- not one of the better products.:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An update on my range.

I  ordered the part and it arrived.

Here's my problem now...

There is a difference between the replacement part and the existing one.

The difference is two-fold.

1.  The connections are different.  The old part has a main four terminal connection.  One of the terminals has a small black pigtail to a second connection which provides power to the element itelf.  The other pole on the element is an orange wire [this second connector is visible in the photo],   The new part doesn't have this type of connection -- I can see that the power for the element comes out of the 4 connector block [see photo of new unit]

2.  The physical form of the element is different -- the parts sites all told that the original part # WB30T10006 had been replaced with WB30T10047.  The difference is that the original element assembly sits up on three spring loaded posts -- the new part doesn't have the holes/assemblies to take these posts.  [OOPS -- later post, I figured out how to solve this, the post supports screw in to the base, I should have looked harder]

So my questions are two:

1.  Is there a way to adjust the connections? I can see that the black double connection on one side of the control unit "jumps" to the other elements of the range.

2.  Can I adapt the new element to my current installation?  For example, can the inner part of the new assembly be transplanted into the old "outer" assembly. [solved this one]

I will attach photos.

Thanks for any help you might offer.

I don't have a wiring diagram to hand to help with the wiring decision but maybe master sensei's have a sense of this.

Arrigato!

Richard 

p.s. can't get more than one file to attach so will post three messages to follow -- sorry if that's inefficient.

 

 

 

post-842-12904508496_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Second Image

post-842-129045084962_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Third Image

post-842-129045084965_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fourth Image (new unit connections close up)

post-842-129045084967_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought about previous posts and looked inside the lower case for a wiring diagram -- if that would help, I can scan it and attach.  Which file type is easiest for sensei's to read?

I can read the basics from the diagram but it doesn't solve my "new unit" connections problem for me.

As usual your help is appreciated.

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

from the pics that you posted,it looks like the heating element is fed from the 2 orange wires,which should terminate at the h1 and h2 terminals on the corresponding control switch. the black and yellow wires are for energizing a "hot"indicator light.  if you look closely on the small ceramic terminal block on the side of the element,you'll probably notice the terminals are labelled  1a,2a,1b and 2b  as a rule the terminals will connect to the same as on previous-TO BE SAFE; measure the 4 terminals on the new element and determine which terminals are normally open,and which are normally closed. the black pigtail on the orig. element has simply been replaced by the bus bar extending from the new limiter.  the black and yellow wires will be attached to the normally open terminals and the orange wires to the normally closed.   hope this helps    :? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Kdog.

On the old unit, the terminals are labelled in the way you say.

Trouble is the new one has different labels for the 4 terminals.

They are 2,4,S and H

Pin 4 looks likes buses to the element (as well as being part of the control)

The element is bused to another internal connection labelled P1

[These are the labels are you look at the thermal control from the bottom that are on the left]

The two terminals on the right are S and H.

I end up with an extra orange wire and am not sure if that should be joined to the other orange which connects to the thermal control or what.

I will wait and see what else pops up before I do any "live" tests.

I have to go to work now so I won't be back on until later in the day.

Again, thanks to all!

I can scan the wiring diagram but it doesn't solve the new connections.

Richard

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

definitely DO NOT join the orange wires together- think of it this way: the orange wires feed the element,so whatever terminals they join to must be normally closed inside the limiter,therefore if you measure them for resistance,will show the resistance of the element,the other 2 terminals will show an open circuit and will only close when the element gets hot-those are for the hot indicator- one of the terminals on the switch will be "fixed" to one side of the element(always contact) ;to this terminal,you should connect the orange wire that was previously connected straight to th element beside the switch on your old elem.  the other orange should go to the impressionable terminal on the limiter,but if you first measure the continuity between the terminals, you MUST read the resistance of the element(probably somewhere between 15-30 ohms),if you measure a zero,do NOT proceed to go live(otherwise it will increase your repair cost significantly).   good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Kdog -- no experiments with 240 volts without higher confidence levels -- I have a lot of respect for 240.

I have your point on the orange wires.

One other piece of info since i last posted.

The cover over the thermal switch was not sealed on very well -- it just swivels open.  I can see the two switches inside.... I presume one is for the heat limit and one for the "hot surface" indicator.

I will check for the closed circuit as you note (I don't have a meter for checking R but I do know what it should be from the wiring diagram!).  I am not sure what you mean by impressionable terminal.

Not sure which of the black and yellow go to which of the other terminals....

I am at work now so won't get another look until later.

I put it all back together so spouse can use stove but will get another look later

on.

I might post a photo of the inside of the thermal control on the new unit -- that might clue you in.  I might also check and see if I can pop the cover of the control on the old unit.

We'll see if any other sensei's give this a read before then.

Thanks again.

Richard

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK -- so here's the final entry.

Kdog was right!!!

I was careful in checking the two thermal switches inside the controller -- one closed (which opens at high heat) carries the juice to the element; one open which closes at high heat [to indicate hot surface].  I had to splice in a longer wire as one of the connectors wouldn't reach its new position.  The switches in the new assembly were set up differently and so connectors were in different places.  Two orange connectors (power) on one side -- look for the bus that connects directly to the element.  Black and yellow pairs on the other side.

I marked the locations of the "post holders", transferred the little steel plates (the spring loaded posts now fit the new assembly) and popped her in.  Put the glass back on top, cleaned the grease from the sides of the stove.... and plugged her in and pushed her back.

Testing time:  comes on, heats, hot surface light comes on.....

I'd say a completed repair by an amateur (or hammer chewer).

I will be back and thanks to all who read/looked etc.

Final thought:  look for wiring diagram taped to inside of case next to lower drawer for resistances etc.

:)  Siyonara Senseis.

Richard

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

good job,well done- now sit back and enjoy a big 'ol mug o'suds!!!      :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the dojo....

I was posting earlier about my Kenmore range.  (not sure how to link to the posts there but they are down a bit in the list now)

I had replaced one of the surface element assemblies (with advice from this board -- thanks Kdog)

One of the connecting wires was too short so I spliced in a short piece of Romex to lengthen it (just one wire from Romex rated at 600V -- standard 12 gauge). 

So here's my question -- the harness on this range looks like aluminum or aluminum alloy, the Romex is copper.  I made the connections with wire nuts and then wrapped in electrical tape.

This morning I recalled some vague memory of combining copper and aluminum as being a safety issue -- generating heat etc.  The piece of Romex is about 4" long and there are two wirenut connections.  Am I OK with this in the context of a range.  Pegi told me the range was 1999 year.

Any thoughts would be welcomed.

Richard

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://applianceguru.com/forum1/783.html

Just copy / paste the topic heading... :)   I do not know the answer to your question so I will defer to someone who has more knowledge in this area....   Pegi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Connecting copper and aluminum sets upn a galvanic corrosion cell. You need to treat the metals to prevent this. Good article on this subject here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link -- I read the article.

I think I am OK for moisture (with wire nuts, tape and it's under glass) which appears to set the galvanic corrosion in motion.

Just in case, I might splice in a bit of aluminum cored wire if I can find or buy a scrap -- the stuff I have lying around is all copper.  I will check at hardware store and an electrical place after the Mem day weekend.

The nice thing is this is it's a circuit that's not live very often (it's the hot surface indicator connection on a less frequently used elemnt so it's open almost all of the time) so it probably won't overheat from being on for long periods of time. It was the overheating I was concerned about.  I did a quick search on this and the CU/AL connection is a big no-no in domestic wiring contexts without special conectors.  In domestic wiring there have been some fires -- I knew I had heard about that somewhere.

Maybe another tech will give a sense of this. 

I will keep a close eye on it though.

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One final note on this successful repair --

I thought about having two wirenut connections and went back in and replaced the two connections with one butt crimped connector and crimped on a new spade terminal.  I used some fresh 12 gauge wire (had to use copper).  Taped the butt crimp and called it a day.  I think I am good to go here.

I also thought about why the old part and the new part were different.  Here's my guess:  the old part (with a separate element and thermo-swithc) allowed for separate replacement.  So if your switch went bad, you could just replace this and vice-versa for the element. The new part has an integrated switch which means you have to replace both.  My problem of the wire harness being too short to make the new connections was probably an unintended consequence.

Thanks for your help.

I feel like I have completed an effective and safe repair -- that's the way it should be!

Arrigato and Siyonara.

Richard

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

note that the corrosion that occurs between dissimilar metals,although aided by,is not limited to moisture.  the structure of the outer shell of the atoms of the substance is such that there is a molecular transfer between the metals(theory of thermocouple operation); when current flows through wires,it creates heat which is also aiding to this process.  the best solution for you is to use either the copper(preferred option) or aluminum conductor for the circuit,but not both. so my choice would be to rewire both sides of the element back to it's origin. if connection must be made under the cooktop,i try to always use a good solder connection,topped with a couple layers of good quality,double wall heat shrink.      always try to route wiring away from hot surfaces under the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites