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Bullstok

Member Since 22 Oct 2011
Offline Last Active Jul 04 2014 12:32 PM

#273032 Slow Dip on Rudd Power Vent Water Heater

Posted by Bullstok on 03 November 2013 - 06:37 PM

Thats the one. The reason i say make it match is because there are many kinds for many applications. Some are only pressure, some are for low pressures, some are for high temps. But most any valve meant for a residential water heater are fine. That DOES NOT INCLUDE the ones for tankless heaters. They are usually pressure only (they dont have the white probe sticking out past the threads). Note that some water heaters have a longer than standard valve because they have thick insulation on the tank. ie: http://t.homedepot.c...N&showPLP=false
Try to avoid the cheap ones. Not worth the time.
  • dgp likes this


#272116 Slow Dip on Rudd Power Vent Water Heater

Posted by Bullstok on 24 October 2013 - 06:22 PM

Pie.
Get new valve (same rating on tag)
Shutoff water
Turn off power to heater (& gas too if u r the paranoid type)
Drain water out of old t&p by pulling handle till no more comes out (dont let anyone open a faucet while doing this) or at bottom boiler drain
Thread tape new valve (5 wraps should do it)
Remove old valve
Thread in new valve
Water back on
  • dgp likes this


#268964 A New Lowe? .. Southwire tools

Posted by Bullstok on 21 September 2013 - 09:37 PM

the only good thing about southwire tools at lowes is that knipex cobra pliers went on clearence and i got 2 pairs.


#247745 How to drain water heaters with no drain valve?

Posted by Bullstok on 04 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

Plumbers do it all the time


yes. yes we do. oh, and the thing with the waterheaters sometimes too...


#243485 nnordyne g6rc

Posted by Bullstok on 03 December 2012 - 06:55 PM

Well. Lets start the crap shoot.

 

its not so much a crap shoot. the resistance of flame sensor wire can be tested. if the pressure switch is dropping out when the gas valve opens, the pressure switch can be monitored by hooking a volt meter on both pressure switch terminals after the switch initially closes and see if the meter ever reads voltage (open switch) while the gas valve is in play. (set your meter on voltage and to min/max).

 

problem remains: gas valve not opening on time or not staying open long enough. the only question needing answered is whether or not the problem is the gas valve itself or a component involved in sending voltage to it.

 

it would still be nice to have the amp draw and coil resistance of the gas valve.




#243339 nnordyne g6rc

Posted by Bullstok on 29 November 2012 - 10:14 PM

if the gas valve dont stay on more than 2 seconds: it aint the flame sensor. there is not enough to sense. therefore the problem is related to why the gas dont stay on long enough. you have to keep order of operation in mind.

 

generally:

 

call for heat. (t-stat sends 24v back to heat)

safety circuit check. (high temp limit(s) & rollout(s) checked)

inducer on. (pre-burn purge)

draft is proved. (inducer pressure switch, centrifugal switch, etc)

igniter comes on.

gas valve opens.

flame ignites.

flame is proved.

warm up.

blower on.

 

we barely get into flame ignites but we know that the actual ignition is not the problem because it ignites AS SOON AS the valve opens. if there was a noticeable delay in ignition from the time it opened then "flame ignites" would be the problem. so "gas valve opens" is the issue. either it is taking too long to open from when it is supposed to or it is not staying open long enough, check all things needed for gas valve to open on time and remain open with good flow.

 

how long (and at what point) does valve get 24v. do not go by the click of it opening. go by the volt meter. if it has 24v but takes precious time to open that is bad. the time you get to prove flame starts when voltage is sent to the valve (or supposed to be sent). not when the valve clicks open (the board does not know the point that the valve actually opened). unhook the 2 wires from gas valve. hook to volt meter. time how long igniter is glowing before 24v is on wires. how long does it remain on wires? same with valve hooked up or not? coil resistance? gas valve amp draw?

 

this is why i asked about a low pressure switch. it is between the board and the gas valve electrically speaking (if you have a low pressure switch)




#243243 nnordyne g6rc

Posted by Bullstok on 28 November 2012 - 09:17 PM

this a wild shot, BUT... now that you mentioned "LP" again (i missed it in original post somehow), does the gas valve have a low pressure cutout switch? they are sometimes added to the gas valve during conversion to LP. if the pressure drops they cut the voltage to the gas valve. they are generally used to keep the furnace from burning poorly when the owner forgets to fill the tank and pressure drops off. if you have any gas supply pressure issues (tank regulator or house regulator or pipe obstruction, etc) or if the pressure switch is going bad, then this could happen:

 

the gas valve is closed, the gas pressure is built up in the lines behind the closed gas valve to the normal operating pressure, the pressure switch is closed because of adequate pressure - allowing voltage through to gas valve, board sends voltage, the gas valve opens, the gas starts to flow, the gas flow is low therefore the pressure drops, the pressure switch senses the low pressure and opens, the voltage to the gas valve gets cut out. repeat.

Attached Files




#242936 Field Note-Before Using Furnace The First Time This Fall...

Posted by Bullstok on 22 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

stupid asian beetles (the ones that look like ladybugs) were especially bad a few years back here in northern indiana and caused the same sort of problems.


#242923 nnordyne g6rc

Posted by Bullstok on 21 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

check ohms on gas valve solenoid with wires disconnected (sometimes this is helpful, sometimes not, depending on the valve & type of coil wiring. ie: diode involved or not, etc). you can also check gas valve amp draw & compare to valve rating if provided.

also check for how long the gas valve actually receives 24v. you may have done this. i wasnt sure from ur post.

chances are still pretty high that the board is the problem.


#242573 uuh...

Posted by Bullstok on 15 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

someone confused the water line with the freon line :drunkass: maybe they wanted ice a hell of a lot faster...


#242571 No heat! Trane XE80.

Posted by Bullstok on 15 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

although it seemed clean.


yep, a lot of times they look pretty clean. but the buildup can be like a thin film. it insulates the rod from the flame. the rod is not trying to be heated by the flame (as a thermocouple does) it is conducting electricity through the path of the flame (not exactly, but close enough). if you picture that it is operating this way it is easier to understand that it has to be good clean steel so it can conduct electricity. a good scrub once a year with a scotch brite pad will usually fix it up. if the rod is black and sooty it may indicate poor combustion and the problem would need looked into.

these sensors hardly ever need replaced. if the ceramic insulator is busted or the wire connection area is bad then yes, replace it. but if there is still steel forming the part in the flame, that can be cleaned, then it should be fine.


#242485 No heat! Trane XE80.

Posted by Bullstok on 14 November 2012 - 07:24 PM

flame sensor, as said, probably needs cleaned. most of the time it is a single steel rod that sticks into the flame. usually in front the last burner, opposite the ignitor (the part that glows red when lighting). it is likely held in by a 1/4" hex head screw and the sensor has ONE wire hooked to it that goes to the control board directly. (i dont know ur particular furnace specifics off hand.) when the sensor gets too dirty (soots up) it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

Attached File  62-23543-01.jpg   8.71KB   1 downloads


#242040 Gas water heater outlet plugged

Posted by Bullstok on 07 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

Calcium buildup. Happens all der time. Had a 50 gallon electric 20" deep of it and still working (sort of). Hot water holds less minerals so they have to go somewhere.


#241833 Ice Maker Blues

Posted by Bullstok on 04 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

Nothing is unrepairable, but it depends on skill and reasonable cost. In your situation it sounds like the techs have not had enough skill and have exceeded the cost (time = cost) portioned out by the factory. The nice thing about DIY is that you have much more time available to fart around with the machine (if you have some skill to counterballance). This unit will be one hell of a story to tell if you fix it.


#241424 Coleman DGAT070BDD Flashes once

Posted by Bullstok on 25 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

i have had many where the burner was a little dirty (or turned slightly grey) and i increased the reading several microamps by cleaning the area of the burner where the flame comes out from (3m scotchbrite pad). not saying that is absolutely the problem. but something to consider if the grounding of the burner has already been checked. also once in awhile the flame sensor rod gets glazed and touching it a little with small very fine file will help. (don't leave gouges, just very lightly)

p.s. a lot of boards only need 1 microamp





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