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Jim Coates

Kenmore 70 Series #110.22712100 won't agitate

30 posts in this topic

Hi all,

I'm new here, but I'm desperate to fix our washer.  It broke last night and we can't get anyone to come fix it until late next week.  We have 4 children (one JUST wet his bed last night of course) and are leaving for vacation next week.

Here is the scenario: the washer will fill, spin and drain correctly, but when it tries to start agitating, it just hums (sounds like an electrical motor not being able to freely turn).

The agitator itself will turn by hand as will the base of the agitator.

I tried taking the cap off so I could disassemble it and look to see if anything was jammed in the dogs, but our agitator doesn't disassemble like the pictures I've found here on the site.  Once you remove the top cap, there is a piece that looks like it has dogs attached and has no bolts etc to remove it.

Did I mention today is my birthday and I *just* got back from having to replace the brakes on my car?  Happy birthday to me I guess.

I'd appreciate any help!!

Thanks,

Jim

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Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now!

Hi - I just looked at your washer by model number and this agiataor does have the type with dog ears. However that will NOT be the cause of a machine only humming when in agaitate. There could be something caught up and under the agitater but bad dog ears would not cause this. So if you want to look onder the agitator for something that could be jammed around the transmission shaft it does come off by removing the car and the 7/16 head bolt. Then the bottom half of the agiator will PULL off. Some are very difficult to pull but they do pull off after you take out the bolt. The humming may also be a bad bound up motor. If you see nothing under the agitator my next step would be to get to the motor and test it.

Unplug BEFORE working.

Remove the motor.

First see if you can turn the pulley by hand.

Here are a few good links and photos from the Samurai to get you going.

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=283

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=282

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=289

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=355

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=430

http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=528

And Happy Birthday TO YOOOOUUUUUU!!!!!

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GLC,

Thanks for the advice and the links.  I have to find my socket wrench set to get the bottom half of the agitator off (so I haven't done that yet), but it does turn freely by hand without feeling like anything is jammed there.

Does this turn even if something is binding the transmission shaft?

I took the casing off the unit too, and I can turn the flywheel for the basket by hand, but I haven't located what actually drives the agitator.. its a direct drive unit.

Is there a trick to getting the nut to loosen that holds the lower agitator assembly in place?

Jim

 

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No trick. Its a regular threaded bolt as far as I recall. You may have to hold the bottom half of the agitator to keep it from turning as you loosen the bolt.

Yes, The agitaor could turn if the transmission is bound up/ The agitator is plastic and it can strip.

Does the bottom half of the agitator also turn free in both directions?

But the motor only humms when it is suppose to be agitating???

Is the humm the motor actually running or is it humminf from trying to run but it is jammed or locked up? Two different sounds (to me).;)

Once you get the agitator off then you will see the transmission shaft. Does that turn freely?

And after you get the agitaor off you could run the machine and look at the actual shaft and see if it is agitaing without the plastic agitator on it. Even try to hold the shaft while it is agitating for a moment? It should be impossible for your hand to stop that shaft alone from agitating.

Let me know....dinner time :D

post-950-129045085438_thumb.jpg

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Well, I got the agitator assembly off and I can rotate the transmission shaft without any issues.  Its hard to turn by hand, but turns easily with a pair of pliers. The agitator itself doesn't look stripped or anything of the sort.

The hum I hear sounds like a relay getting stuck or a motor that is trying to start not being able to... but the funny thing is that the spin cycle/drain works just fine. In otherwords, yes the only time the hum is present is during the agitation... otherwise everything works just like it should.  It fills, it spin cycles and drains without issue.

I didn't try running the machine with the agitator assembly out, as I have the casing off too, but I'm guessing that it should be the problem considering the dogs were in good shape and the agitator itself was not stripped etc.

So... now where does that leave me?

Thanks again!

Jim

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Usually, if this motor will run one way, it will run the other unless something is binding it.  See if there might be something in the pump, which would be sort of odd since it drains and spins ok, when the motor reverses.  You could have a transmission that is locking up.

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To check for something in the pump, would I simply undo the hoses to the front side of the pump and check for blockage of some sort?

Thanks,

Jim

 

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Right, just un-clip the pump and pull it off and remove the hoses.  If it is ok, reinstall the pump and then jumper the lid switch and see if the motor will run with the pump on, just use a low fill.  If it will not run still, un-clip the pump with the hoses still attached and secure it away from the motor by a brace and try it with the pump off.  If it still will not run, unplug the washer, un-clip the motor from the transmission and put it on the floor and hold it with your foot, and see if it will run off of the transmission, after you plug it back in. if it will not run your motor is bad, if it will run, you might have a bad transmission.

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Yes, but like Pegi mentioned since it is spinning and pumping out the water we doubt that is the problem. Did you see the agitator shaft agitating whith out the plastic agiataor on it? If the shaft of the transmission is agaitaing but the plastic is not, the plastic may not be firm and secure on the metal transmission shaft as this is what turns it. If the metal shaft does not agitate then there is either a locked up tranny or a bad motor. And also like Pegi said if the motor works in one direction (spin) it usually works in the other (99%) However I have seen them where it did work in one direction and not the other, but not often.

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Well, the pump is fine... spins freely in both directions off of the motor.

The motor seems fine.. I can manually spin it freely in both directions by turning the motor's rotors (under the machine).

The agitator shaft does not run even with the agitator completely removed... same noise.

The noise is definitely the sound of something trying to move but cannot (as compared to the noise of something moving but missing a gear etc).

At this point I am assuming that something is messed up in the transmission.. and I'm also assuming that an expensive part and one that take a good deal of effort to replace?

Jim

 

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Expensive, yes, easy to replace??  Very....Can replace a tranny in less that 30 minutes.

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Pegi,

I found someone locally who has one for sale (tranny for $125)...  do you have an instruction sheet or something on changing it out?

I want to make sure I do it right so that I don't run into more problems.

Thanks,

Jim

 

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Remove the agitator, remove the pump/motor, remove the 3 tranny bolts, slide the puppy out and slide the new one back, bolt er up, clip motor/pump on and install agitator.   I have replaced this in about 15 minutes and was testing the washer.

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Ok. Thanks.

Before I go spend a lot of money on the part, is there anything electrical that might be causing the machine to not agitate?  Is there a relay or something that switches it into agitate mode that might be failing?

The hum that it makes when it goes to agitate is the exact same sound you hear from something like an electric latch on an apartment door.

I wasn't sure how exactly the machine works... if something electrical changing the transmission between spin and agitate or if its simply a matter of the motor reversing (which in turn causes the transmission to shift to agitate).

Jim

 

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Motor runs one way, it agitates, motor reverses it spins. No electrical to the tranny.. Motor runs the tranny, it is mechanical.  Are you sure the motor runs ok both ways off of the tranny?? and sounds ok???

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That is what I am testing next (pulling the motor off the pump and tranny and making sure it runs both ways.

I'll let you know.

Jim

 

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Ok... well here is the latest.

It is not the transmission.  I pulled the motor out of the machine and ran it without the tranny or the pump connected to it and it still does nothing but make the noise during the agitate cycle.

I can grab the drive shaft on the motor and freely turn it either direction with the machine off, so it doesn't seem to be binding anywhere, but it is definitely something with the motor.

Now what?

Thanks,

Jim

 

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Have you verified that you're getting valid voltage to the motor on both the run and start windings?  If not, there's a control or wiring problem.  More insight on this in my latest field note:

http://fixitnow.com/2005/06/field-notes-maytag-mav-washer-wont-run.htm

If voltages are good and where they're supposed to be, then replace the motor. 

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Well, I tested the motor's continuity and ohm loads by using the information I found on this page: http://groups.msn.com/Appliantology/washers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=355

Everything seems to check out there just fine, which I assume would indicate that I don't have a broken coil etc.

I am unsure about what wires to test for start and run voltages, so I've attached a schematic.  I'd greatly appreciate it if you could assist me in determining what to check.

The washer is set to Ultra Clean at 6 minutes right now if it makes a difference.

My assumption is the following:

white/orange and white/black would test low

white/violet and white/black would test medium

blue and white/black would test high

black and white/black would test start voltage

Am I close at all? 

Thanks again,

Jim

 

post-1575-129045085455_thumb.jpg

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You are going to be wanting to check the voltage to the motor with a volt stick to see if you are getting 120 volts to the motor while power is going to it thru the timer.

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I'm not sure I understand.

I thought Samurai wanted me to check the harness for voltage at the run and start wires to make sure the motor was getting the correct votlage?

Jim

 

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Light sticks are useful for a quick yea or nay, but they don't tell you if you're dealing with junk voltage since they will light up in the presence of 104 vac (junk voltage).  Use a meter.  Also, use the wiring diagram for your washer, not a generic diagram found on the web.  Can I say that any more clearly? 

Finally, it's obvious from your comments that you didn't read the linked article I posted in my previous reply.  I know, I know:  I'm always telling people to read stuff.  But the harsh reality is that the internet is a reading medium; this ain't TV and we ain't a bunch o' talking heads here to tell you what to do and think.  We can point you in the right direction but, like the horse at the proverbial trough, you gotta do the thinkin' (or drinkin', as befits the metaphor).  The linked article illustrates the troubleshooting process for exactly this kind of situation.  Drink. 

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Samurai,

The attachment that I sent to you was an actual scan of my wiring diagram pulled from right inside the washing machine (it was stuck up in the console area).

I did read your article.. even sat there with it in my lap as I was at the machine.

I'm also using a multimeter for my testing.

Your article says "With the harness still disconnected, I used the schematic diagram for the washer to locate the pins on the wiring harness corresponding to the motor's start and run windings."... however... I'm not sure which wires those are in my system, which is why I attached the schematic and why I asked the question.

Jim

 

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Here's what you'll do:

Set the timer to regular wash

Measure the voltage for the Start winding at the Yellow wire wrt neutral.

Measure voltage at the High winding at the Blue wire wrt neutral.

ALSO, measure the voltage at the Medium winding at the W-V wire wrt neutral.

AND measure the voltage at the Low winding at the W-OR wire wrt neutral.

wrt neutral means that one of your probes will be attached to a known neutral point on your washer.  If your house is wired correctly, this point will have nearly the same electrical potential as chassis ground.

If you see more than one of the run windings energized with 120vac (nominal) then you have a bad wash action switch.

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Samurai,

Thank you.

This is what I discovered.

With the dial set to regular wash at the point where it should agitate, the voltages read as follows:

Start = 34 VAC  High = 34 VAC  Medium = 28 VAC  Low = 13 VAC

With the dial set to regular was at the point where it should spin, the voltages read as follows:

Start  = 113 VAC  High = 32 VAC  Medium = 16 VAC  Low = 15 VAC

This makes sense, because the motor works in spin mode (gets the 113 VAC start)...  but in agitate all windings show the same voltage.

Would this indicate a bad was action switch to you as you mentioned and are the spin voltages within what you'd expect?  Nothing read 120 VAC.

Thanks again for your patience... I'm just a simple musician (which is why I own all the tools) trying to get his poor washer back up and running before we have to leave on a family trip.

Jim

 

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