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CJrun

Ninja Defrost Timer

26 posts in this topic

The FAQs have led me to the liklihood that I need to (first) check the Defrost Timer, which should be somewhere in the FF compartment.  I know what the part looks like, but I can't find where it's hiding in my MSD2454FRQ.  I have pulled out all the drawers and I removed the cover at the top, over the bulbs, etc.  Any thoughts on what I may have missed?  Hurry, my beer, it warms! Thanks! 

Edited by CJrun

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Need appliance parts? Call 877-803-7957 now!

... MSD2452FRQ

check that model number again :wacko:

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Oops!  MN corrected; thanks, Reg.

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Crap!  That means I have more things to remove before I can get to it.  Sneaky ninja Defrost Timer!  Thanks, Reg.

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You're lucky this model has a normal defrost timer, most of these refrigerators have a control board that  controls the defrost cycle and they are failure prone.

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Whoa  there  big fella....................git yerself a mirror and look up in the right front  area of the control console..........look for a small round hole, it is there to stick your 'stubby' screwdriver into and 'turn'...................Clock wise until you hear the 'click'........... go slow as not to blast right thru the defrost cycle.............................

Edited by certified tech group 51

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Thanks for the tip, '51.   The heater functioned after I rotated the little knob to the click, getting up above 61 F.  After 20 minutes the compressor came back on and everything cooled back down,  I guess that means the Defrost Timer was shot and I ordered the replacement.  That means I will still have to remove every other thing in Reg's diagram to get down to Item # 13, but at least I didn't have to do that, just to test the Timer.  Thanks, folks!

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Let me get this straight.........................If you turned the defrost timer till it clicked, the heater operated, then it clicked again and the  heater turned off and the system started   ( AND you did not touch the timer, it advanced on it's own ).................After 20 minutes, the system restarted.... it does not appear to be a timer problem............................... If it was a friggy timer, it would be replaced with no hesitation...............What was the original complaint????.

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Well, originally it was warm fridge and freezer.  I went through that flow chart and first cleaned the condenser coils thoroughly, with no observable results.  Temp in freezer compartment hovered around 36 F.

 

So I emptied the freezer into coolers and pulled off the back panel to look at the evaporator coils and what I observed is depicted now in my original post (for some reason, I can't insert photos within the thread).  So I defrosted with a blow dryer, then wanted to run the Defrost cycle test, thus needed to get at the timer, to see if the heater was working.

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For what it is worth, I ran the defrost timer test after the fridge ran all night.  Therefore, everything was cold and there was a bit of frost built up.  After the CLICK, the temp in the Heater wires climbed to @ 63 F.  I assume the  Defrost Timer ended the cycle after 20 minutes, as the wires dropped below 40F, last I checked (@ 25 minutes after CLICK), before I put the freezer back together and re-stocked all the food out of the coolers.

 

My intention was to periodically manually defrost the unit (turn till the Timer CLICKs), every 6 hours or so, until the new timer arrives (probably Monday).

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the Defrost Timer motor / gears may be "stalling" and never reach the Defrost cycle..

although, if the Timer motor / gears stall during Defrost cycle .....

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...then it would go into perma-defrost mode.  During which the compressor and fans would cease running, as well.  The Defrost cycle was completly silent.  Only the lights being on and heater wires warming were evidence that it was even plugged in.

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has this Fridge worked OK for you up till now ?
OR recently purchased "used" ?

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From here: http://fixitnow.com/wp/2004/04/22/mailbag-diagnosing-refrigerator-defrosting-problems/

 

"...Now pull your head outta the refrigerator and plug it back in. The light should come on, but you should not hear any motors running. Open the freezer and wait a few minutes. If the heaters and terminator are working properly, you may hear sizzling or even see an orange glow. Listen and look carefully. The other thing to look for is a steady trickle of water dripping into the condensate pan underneath the refrigerator. Give it a good five minutes. If it looks like the defrosting system is doing its thang, then the defrost timer was stuck in run mode–replace it."

 

I get that the problem, here, seems to be that the Defrost Timer ended the cycle after @ 20 minutes.  The Fermented Grandmaster didn't address what to do if the defrost cycle ended normally.  In the absence of better ideas, I guess I replace the Timer.  Maybe I'll see something else when I remove all of that stuff that covers the Timer in Reg's diagram.



Purchased more than 6 months ago, used.

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has this Fridge worked OK for you up till now ?

OR recently purchased "used" ?

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Purchased used @ 6 months ago.  Has worked fine, except for a clog in the drain tube.

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the Defrost Timer motor / gears may be "stalling" and never reach the Defrost cycle..

although, if the Timer motor / gears stall during Defrost cycle .....

Exactly, a gear can prevent it from going into defrost at times but no problem coming out. Could also be a bad timer conection causing intermittent failure. Bottom line, if heater comes on after initiating manual defrost then replace timer. I have on rare occasions found intermittent defrost limits. Since they are cheap, you may as well change it as well.

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UPDATE!

 

CTG51 was smelling the correct rat.  Yeah, I've already ordered the replacement timer, but that doesn't appear to be the problem.  I masked the real symptoms by the order in which I did things.

 

1) Cleaned the condensor coils.

 

2)Turned the fridge/freezer off.

 

3) Emptied the freezer and removed the panels covering the evaporator; found the evaporator was frozen up.

 

4) Manually defrosted with a blow dryer.

 

5) Couldn't find the dang Ninja Timer, fridge still off, but freezer defrosted.

 

6) Eventually found the Timer, then unplugged the unit per Samurai's instructions, before messing with the Timer.  Manually advanced Timer to the CLICK, then got out my temperature gun and shot the Heater Wires.  Got a reading of @ 60F, so I assumed the Heater Wires were functioning.

 

7) The Timer turned everything back onto normal.

 

So, I read around 30 F on the evaporator coils, but 60 F on the heater wires, on a unit that had been unplugged while I messed with the Timer.  Re-doing the test this morning, neither the Evaporator nor the Heater Wires ever got up over 30 F during the defrost cycle,  This is probably because yesterday I had a defrosted unit which had been unplugged for a bit, so the heater wires were reflecting more of the air temperature in the empty freezer with the door open and no ice on the evaporator coils (therefore, 60 F).  Today I did it without unplugging, without manually defrosting, and the wires more closely reflected the temperature of the ice on the coils!

 

It's gotta be the dang Heater Wires, not the Timer!  So, now I gotta order the wires and return the replacement timer.

 

Thanks for making me puzzled enough to re-run the test and find the flaw in yesterday's effort.

 

This morning

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In step 6)   When put into 'forced defrost' the bi-metal was still open..............The defrost circuit was 'open'............What are the items you call 'heater wires'??........The wires that connect to the heater ( small round metal looking thingy)  should not get hot, just the heater itself...............When the freezer  has been down to '0' degs for about an hour ,( 30` on the evaporator ???)  check the continuity of the defrost terminator ( bi-metal )........................Try this, with the unit operating for over 8 hours,  ( 8 hour timer ) remove the evaporator panel, put unit into forced defrost, does the heater operate??............... it will be a dull red to a bit brighter red color and it will be hot....   Could still be the timer  ( p/n 68233-2   65 clam$ on the Shell-O-Meter) as more info is extracted.................. ( Heater assy. p/n 61003120 just for a  defrost terminator, at  about 41 clam$...................I have seen bi-metals go for 60 clam$..) ...

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Well, I call this the Heater Wires. 

 

Fridge004_zps2823e45d.jpg

 

 

I figured they are essentially resistor wires that should heat up.  Near the top of that photo may be what you call the small round metal looking thingy.  It attaches to the white leg of the Heater Wires.  That may be the Terminator.

 

The parts listing (already ordered) describes the Wires and the metal thingy as the Heater Assembly:

http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Defrost-Heater-Assembly/61006116/1021756?modelNumber=MSD2454FRQ

 

The coldest I ever recorded on the Evaporator was @ 4 F, which seemed acceptable.

Edited by Samurai Appliance Repair Man
Embedded image of "heater wires."

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Just dealt with this exact same problem today.  Let's stop trying to ballroom dance with Burmese war pig-- just gut the defrost system in this puppy and get back to having cold beer.  Here's what you need to replace for a 100% guaranteed fix for under a $100 (and save you a lot of time and headache... unless you enjoy warm beer):

 

Defrost timer ==> http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Defrost-Timer/682332/1335?modelNumber=MSD2454FRQ

 

Defrost-Timer-68233-2-00928258.jpg

 

 

Defrost heater and thermostat assembly ==> http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Defrost-Heater-Assembly/61006116/1021756?modelNumber=MSD2454FRQ

 

Defrost-Heater-Assembly-61006116-0056391

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Well, to be truthfull, it's my Better Half's beers that are threatened.  My frosties are dispensed from an OASIS "Hot 'N Cold" water cooler, probably from the 1960s, out here in my workshop.  It has a little door in the front that accesses close to a case-of-beer worth of very cold storage.

 

I already ordered both items above, around $120, with rapid shipping, but worth it if My Baby is kept happy.  Plus I enjoy doing this sort of stuff.

 

Question:

 

If the Timer appears to be working, do I go ahead and replace it?  Do I return ship it?  Should I just stick it on a shelf in the workshop, knowing it may fail sometime soon?  Parts are already paid for, but we ain't exactly rich.

 

Besiades, I have a lovely "Ben Hur" deep freezer from the 1960s out in my storage shed that I would like to resurrect.for fun and kilowatt consumption.  It worked beatifully until after I refinished it, moved it, and now it's a brick.  I have asked a fridge mechanic to look at it but he has suggested that it may have developed pinhole leaks in the shelf/coils and shoud be shit-canned.  He wasn't willing to even look at it.

 

My current inclination is to go ahead and replace the Timer and box the old one, in case I ever need it.  I think it may be functioning fine, but what the Hell.

 

My Baby will be impressed that none of our food has spolied, it only cost us a bit over $100, and we didn't have to put up with a repair visit disturbing the "peace" in the midst of our schedules, 4 dogs, 3 cats, and 20-something chickens.

 

And maybe I will have bought some goodwill by doing this myself, to allow me to play with Ben Hur and it not seem as if I am just goofing off, when there are bound to be chores she would prefer to assign me.  And they won't be pleasant chores.  They will probably involve things like clothes.  Or remodeling another room in a house with 2 adults, 3 boys, 4 dogs, 3 cats, and 20 something chickens.

 

Her last three projects were the hall bathroom/laundry (yes, you helped with the washer), now all redone and tiled, while continuing to function for the home, the entire kitchen, complete with all new (to us) appliances, ceilings, floor.  All functioning, the entire time, and she wouldn't even let me move the washer and dryer out onto the back porch, while I tiled the laundry floor; everything had to be completely functional and in place, at the end of each day's effort.

 

So, Timer?  Yes or no?  Ben Hur?  Yes or no?  Shall we attempt a group restoration on a gorgeous 1960s deep freezer?  I don't know what I would ever put in it, these days.  Our chickens are pets and with even hamburger at $4 a pound it would bankrupt us, to fill it.  But, just for fun, after I get my Baby's fridge fixed, I would like to pull Ben Hur out of the shed and get it running.

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