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curjones

Kenmore washer motor? switch.

32 posts in this topic

Kenmore mod 110.2732260. I dont have the wiring diagram, lucky me, lol. Fills with water and nothing else happened. Checked motor, blue wire, 120 volts, then I wiggled white netural going to switch (thermal?) of motor switch and it runs. It had a leaking water pump so I went to replace it and the white, wire on the motor switch fell off terminal, burnt. I fixed that and now it wont run.

Was reading some trouble shooting help. Question about wires to motor. blue wire should have 120 in agitate mode, is the black wire suppose to be hot as well. That adviser said no, and if black white is hot 120 vac, timer is bad.

I had a used motor switch and put it on but that did not fix. I dont realy know how that switch works, what wire supplies the netural to the switch harness.

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... I wiggled white netural going to switch (thermal?)

yes

 

Does the Motor "hum" when it's supposed to run, but doesn't ?

 

During Agitate OR Spin,

the Motor should have 120v between the Blue wire (#4) and the White/Black wire #3 (or the Grey wire #7)

The Motor direction is determined by which way (magnetic polarity) that the Start Winding gets momentarily energized

Black wire #1 (or Red # 10) and Yellow wire #5

jif4.jpg

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I saw where you could make a test lead for the motor.  the diagram was for a maytag, would that work on kenmore. hey i'm trying to learn here and I guess  dont get how a washer agitates.  The test lead shows yellow and blue wires are swaped on a winding, to make it agitate.  I don't have a digram so I'm really lost.  question? does the motor switch make and break the netural, by centrifical rotation and that is how it agitates.  sorry im brain dead havent got it pictured in the mind.

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typed my comment before I refreshed my screen so let me study what you have given me , thanks

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can white black wire carry 120 to ground, if timer is bad, the black white wire is suppose to be a netural, is that correct.  Im pretty sure the black white read 120 to ground.

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The H winding is the high-speed run winding.

The S winding is the start winding

 

For the Motor to run, H would need 120v continuously,

The momentarily 120v to the Start winding, determines Motor run direction,

which the Transmission uses to Agitate or Spin.

The Motor Centrifugal Switch disconnects the Start winding when it's up to speed.

(and sometimes switches speed from Hi to Low speed, if it was a multiple speed Motor)


...  Im pretty sure the black white read 120 to ground.

the the Motor internal Thermal Switch is "open"

OR the Lid Switch is "open"

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the motor does nothing, you can put it in spin and it wont work either. no hum or sound.

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  You will read 120vac to ground on the white/black wire (and white or gray) if you have an open neutral. The white wire (or gray) is the neutral feed to the motor. It goes through the thermal overload and then to the high speed winding and also goes out on the white/black wire to the timer motor direction contacts. You can't use the Maytag test cable as the Maytag washer does not use a capacitor. You would have to rig a capacitor into the test cable to make it work on your washer. Your problem appears to be with the neutral connection at the motor.

 

Eric

Edited by fairbank56

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grey wire comes from top and is in harnes to motor switch, i have a white wire on bottom (fourth terminal) that goes to the thermal and then to the h winding.  That white terminal at the bottom of the switch burnt off,.  now if I'm seeing it right the wht black wire and white wire are the same netural, from what i can tell from the diagram grey netural, turns to white netura via connection in the motor switch, white then goes through thermal and winding H,  netural.  white black comes from timer to motor switch and then meets up with the white inside the motor.  I dont see how white black could carry 120 unless it shorts to 120, not open.  if a timer terminal welds shut on 14 or 7 then white black could become hot.  I have to re-check that reading on the blk-white, and I will check for a open netural, grey wire.  Thanks for your help, i may not still have it right in my head.  I have a second washer from this customer with same symptoms, noticed burning on the white wire on it as well.    last question as I look at diagram. is there an internal thermal in the motor , I see #7 and a hump then it goes to H winding.  got some more studying to do just realized I dont understand some of the principles of the mechanics and electrical.  will get it down.  Thanks again for your help.

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open grey or white wire path, would mean white black would not be netural, power from blue wire would pass through winding h and white black would be 120, is that what you were trying to tell me. I think I see what you were saying fairbank.

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... white black comes from timer to motor switch and then meets up with the white inside the motor.

... is there an internal thermal in the motor ... I see #7 and a hump then it goes to H winding.

1) no, white/black doesn't "come from timer", it's neutral, going to the Timer Motor

2) yes .... yes

 

open grey or white wire path, would mean white black would not be netural, power from blue wire would pass through winding h and white black would be 120, is that what you were trying to tell me. I think I see what you were saying fairbank.

yes

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Here's a little diagram I use to train new techs with. It's mainly for Whirlpool dryers, but it it help you understand where the motor is getting neutral and line voltage from and when. Note that the terminals and colors are different, but it's the same basic principle.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9jxjxf5drpjae7/Dryer%20Run%20Start%20Circuit.pdf

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  Yes, if you have an open neutral, you don't have a complete circuit which means no current flow and no voltage drop across the motor winding. Your just reading the 120 volts through the winding. Be advised that taking continuity readings can be misleading. When you are checking continuity, your just using the low DC voltage and current of your multimeter. You could have a bad connection that still may read low ohms with your meter but when you apply full 120 volts and high current of the motor, the connection fails. Bad neutral connections are common on these washers and are usually on that thermal switch and/or the harness connector.

 

Eric

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ok, when i flipped it over to repair pump the lid switch moved off, that was my loss of netural,  right on fairbank,  this switch may be damaged, have not replaced one like this, series 300. (going to look at new part pic)  but there is always a but, it ran and then it stopped, getting hot.  motor going bad, transmission drag ???? going to let it sit..  this is why the white wire burned off terminal.  Thanks again for the help, my axe is not as dull now, remember go back and check the lid switch, even if it tested good the first time.  Save the giblets  as julie childs says (saturday night live skit).

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Let it sit, started it up it drained, but did not move to spin cycle, turned off switch, tried to start, get the hummmm.

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  Will it agitate? This washer has a dry agitate function. There is an area on the dial just before drain where it will agitate even without any water in it. Find this point and mark it so you can use it for testing agitate without having to fill the washer. Sounds like a gearcase issue though if it will drain but then locks up when it should spin. If it was a problem with the basket or basket drive the motor should still run but the clutch would just slip. Did you check the voltage when the motor hums to see if your getting a big voltage drop due to a connection problem? 

 

Eric

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reading anothers, problem on forum. The washer went through agitate, then it stopped, shut off, would not go to drain, suspect overheated ol, for I could not put it in spin mode and make water drain. It sat for a while, I put it on spin, it drained but stayed in drain mode, never went to spin mode. took off power, then tried restart, thats when motor humm occured. Now I consider fact: I changed out the motor switch,IF old switch lever is worn, AND start winding does NOT drop out, can that cause motor to overheat, ie problem #1 overheat in agitate. I'm thinking that IF this switch fails to open and draws heat, that heat could be transferd back to timer, contacts, which could damage them, causing a stuck on condition (welded). So then when the unit tries to go to spin, contacts 7 and or 14 (assumed one is stuck) would NOT allow motor rotation reversal. IE HUMMM.

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will check out you input , thanks eric.

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obeytabey,, rotated motor counter clock wise, and it went into spin (Motor ran), IF it spins and stops at a place where there is no more room, in the clockwise rotation (up against the clutch) it will Not start only humm.

Enlightment time. I watched viedo last night on transmission, became familuar with netural drain plate. Not sure how it kicks in to netural, has to go to netural to allow drain, that I understand, but how does it get there. My thinking is that when the motor is turned off, the transmission is suppose to always return to this netural position, which would allow room for motor to bump up, jog before hitting clutch. (loccked rotor condition exist if not in netural).

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  The neutral drain mechanism is "set" during the first few seconds of agitate. After agitate, motor reverses and drain without spin occurs. Then motor pauses which releases the latch on the neutral drain plate so that when it starts again, it goes into spin while continuing to drain. I created this image to show and explain how it all works. The view is as if you were looking down on and through the spin gear.

 

Eric

 

NeutralDrainExplanation.jpg

Edited by fairbank56

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Ok, if we are in spin mode, and interupt it, is the clutch involved, ie spring return, to disengage pawlws or levers. I watched a few vids and when the machine stoped I noticed a back up motion, no one is saying, or making that point. One vid said the clutch is tied into the netural plate. Im reviewing clutch function as well. I'm refreshing my mind, I'm boneing up , but may be asking bone head questions to those familar with the functions. I'm leaning towards a poor spring return in clutch, or as you said gearcase issue not allowing pawls or gears to free up. Slight rotation back will allow motor to start again.

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I still have to go back and find out if its going to overheat the motor in agitate.  This one is really testing my assumed knowledge.. I thought I was somewhat smart... lol

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  There's no spring involved. After drain, the motor stops and the neutral drain plate latch disengages due to centrifugal force. This allows the spin pawl to engage the spin gear which will cause slight movement of the basket before the motor starts again for spin. The spin gear is operated by the spin pawl on the neutral drain plate. The spin  gear drives the spin pinion gear which drives the clutch.

 

Eric

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... started it up it drained, but did not move to spin cycle, turned off switch, tried to start, get the hummmm.

post a YouTube video,

then post the link here

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start cap, read 65 uf, suppose to be 185-220 ? cant read is specs that good, swaped it out with the other units start cap,  motor is getting hot, triping thermals, so leaning towards mechanical failure of centificual springs in motor or the other switch i put in dosent hit the lever properly.   Now I'm Asking here to be sure I have the function in my mind correct.  the motor mechanical flys up and keeps the start winding out of circuit during high speed via switch on motor. .  BUT or if it (switch ) does not make, the start winding would continue to run,  (would or could) causing a overheating of motor, and a hot capacitor, and would also cause the cap to fail.  

 

The weak start cap, 65 uf instead of 85-120 would have caused me trouble trying to start in the spin cycle, it didnt have enough kick in that jack ass to move the cart.

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