LG LFCS31626S refrigerator fan noise, and possibkle related issues.

[soulweeper]

We have an LG  LFCS31626S refrigerator, that has some kind of fan noise, all of a sudden, and I think it may be related to a couple other issues. Or may be not...just a guess, but there is a reason I say that.

This unit is a little over a year old, and it replaced the original, as it had issues right away, that the place we bought it from couldn't diagnose, and LG wanted a second opinion, and the place that provided the second opinion, thought it was the main board, replaced it, and the fridge died the next day, and we lost all our food. Hence the replacement fridge.

The first unit made this sometimes very loud "knock" noise at different times, and of course, never did it the couple times the repair guy came by. He thought it might be expansion/contraction, which made sense, as it does sound like when our vinyl windows make a noise when the sun hits them, only this is much louder. And at the same time, I noticed a little ice forming in the upper corners of the freezer compartment, behind the drawer, and around that vent, I guess you could say. The place we bought it from said there shouldn't be an ice at all on that back wall, but by that time, the "second opinion" people were already involved. The second person also said there shouldn't be any ice back there, but the knock noise we hear could be expansion/contraction. He said a lot of the newer units make that noise. Not sure if that's true. I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, that a noise that can easily be hear a couple rooms away sometimes, is normal. Anyway, this guy had some theory about how the main board was communicating with the defroster and whatnot.....all of which I can't remember, and was partly over my head, and he felt it was the main board. So he ordered it, replaced it, and the fridge died the next day. My conversation with LG was not pleasant at all, to say the least. I was livid. They replaced the fridge.

So......the replacement fridge makes the same loud knock noise from time to time, with no pattern, and different volume levels, sometimes very loud, so we figured maybe it's a characteristic, and the repair guy was right. Still seems ridiculous, as it's very loud at times. But another thing is......there is some ice forming in the same spots on the freezer compartment, around that vent....almost identical to the first fridge. So we're thinking a little ice in those corners must be "normal", just like the knock noise, as two different units have the noise and the ice. It's keeping the food cold, and not causing any problems that we know of, so we'll see what happens. Needless to say, I will NEVER buy an LG product again.

Now......enter the fan noise. About two weeks ago, I heard a noise that clearly sounded like it was a fan blade hitting something. I could tell it was something that was spinning, and clearly had a sound like a fan, hitting a shroud or something. It is definitely behind the refrigerator compartment, about chest high or so, and definitely not down low, and the most distinct thing about it is.....if you open the fridge while it's making this noise, the fan winds down upon the door opening, and stops. That's how you can tell that it is right behind the refrigerator compartment. You can tell it's right there, behind that back wall. If you close the door, and give it a minute, it will start up again, but not every time. It will only go so long, and stop on it's own, even if you don't open the door, but it will stop every time, if you open the door. I called the place we bought it from, and the guys still said that there shouldn't be any ice in the freezer where I described, and that it could be ice building up on that fan,and hitting the shroud, but there has to be a reason it's doing that, and obviously it shouldn't be.

So it will be up to LG as to whether or not this replacement unit is under warranty from when it was delivered, or if the replacement is part of the original warranty, so I came here to ask you folks if you think this noise, the ice, and this fan noise might all be related? And if not, based on my description of approximately where the fan is, and how it stops when I open the door, does anyone know which fan it is, and how hard is it to get to, in case I have to replace it?

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far, and thanks in advance for any input!

[john63]

Check Serial Number.

If within following...

501KRxxx to 503KRxxx

New software re-write done to eliminate frost accumulation in both freezer and fresh food compartments (upper left corner)

Other symptoms:

1. Fan blades hitting frost/ice

2. Frost/ice formation on small "donut" gaskets on the left door (air vent for in door icemaker)

3. Thawing freezer or fresh food temps---but recovers after a defrost cycle (approx every 12 hours)

New main Board Part Number EBR78940506

The freezer rear panel and fresh food compartment Multi Duct Assy must (both) be removed and all frost/ice melted/manually defrosted (usually with a steamer tool)

On the left side of the freezer evaporator coils and on the right side of the fresh food evaporator coils---there's a Thermal Fuse. Care must be take NOT to heat those during the defrosting process.

Edited October 4, 2016 by john63

[soulweeper]

509KRQW11772 is the serial number, and we don't have an in door ice maker, so that narrows the list. Does everything I described sound related to you? Do you also agree there should be no ice in the freezer compartment?

 

And thank you for replying.

 

[john63]

Hard to know for sure if both refrigerators had the same exact symptoms/faults.

Models built in late 2014 also had issues with frost/ice (too much accumulation)

*Some* frost on the freezer rear panel is normal.

None should be seen on the fresh food rear duct---ever.

The bulletin that I mentioned earlier is a 2nd set of service instructions related to concerns of excessive frost accumulation---to the point of causing problems.

I would hope that the LG servicer checking your refrigerator will contact the LG technical dept for the latest updates for your refrigerator.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by john63

[john63]

Earlier Service Bulletin...

Serial Range 406KR through 412KR (June thru December)

1. New main Board (EBR78940507)

2. All frost/ice to be removed (caution taken at Thermal Limit locations)

3. Relocation/moving of several small refrigerant tubing.

*Could still be an ongoing issue in newer built models---and LG engineering is still working on a definite fix.

[soulweeper]

http://imgur.com/a/k2sXV

http://imgur.com/a/lIP0b

http://imgur.com/a/C8iK8

 

These are from the first fridge, and the ice is a little less, to the left of that duct, on the new fridge, but essentially, it's the same idea. All three pictures are pretty much the same, but since taking a picture of ice on a white background, without flash, with a point and shoot, is a little challenging.....you get the idea.

[john63]

The frost shown on the images that you've posted---are a common sight in many LG freezer compartments (particularly freezer on bottom model refrigerators)

As long as the frost/ice does not accumulate/migrate to either of the two fan motors---nothing untoward will occur.

Several years back---that back panel (known as a Grill Fan Cover) was updated from having a seal around the edges being 5mm thick---to 10mm thickness.

This was an attempt to reduce moisture intrusion into the fan motor compartment.

The update proved successful.

I find that the amount/quantity of the frost on the Grill Fan Cover varies greatly depending on owner usage---in fact a service bulletin describes just that.

Active households (say 2 parents with 2 young kids) will see much more door openings within a 24 hour period---than an older/empty-nester couple for example.

Certain habits---such as taking a long time to load groceries (door or doors kept open for an extended period of time) adds a higher than normal amount of moisture (humidity) to the refrigerator. Especially if it is the freezer door that remains open too long.

All of this is unique to the LG french door models. I don't see this in other brands---to the same degree---and I don't why that is ---yet.

I have a hunch that it is all connected to designing/manufacturing of LG refrigerators---to be hyper/extremely energy efficient (usually thru software design).

As for the noise---my experience has been that fan blades are hitting frost/ice---which at times can sound like a card hitting the spokes of a bicycle rim---and other times seems singular in sound (knock).

This is caused by the ever changing frost ice accumulation at the fan motor housing. Which mysteriously seems to resolve itself after half a day or a full 24 hours later (defroster heater melted enough of it away). Only to return again later---without rhyme or reason (again door activity/openings vary---more on weekends/less during workweek etc).

 

[soulweeper]

Thanks, yet again, for the reply. I might add that "knock I'm describing", is definitely not from a fan of any kind. Like I said, it is so loud sometime, it can be heard a couple rooms away

 If it does while you're in the kitchen with it, and it's fairly quiet, it will startle you, or make you jump. No fan could make a sound with such depth.

That said, the other noise that we hear is definitely a fan, and the description you gave of a card hitting the spokes of a bicycle rim, is very accurate, ad obviously sometimes it's louder than others. Can I ask you why it always stops if I open the door.....if it's making that noise, that is? It's the fan stopping, obviously. Just curious what the relation to the door opening is.

It sounds to me like you feel this is fairly "normal", and the fact that it did it one day, then didn't seem to for a couple days, then was louder one night, then didn't seem to do it for 4 or 5 days, etc. etc. goes along with the theory of it being cause by different activity. That raises the question of.....will it hurt anything? I can't recall hearing this until recently, or it always did it when we weren't around, but we got this one in December, and I first started hearing it a couple weeks ago. When I described it to the guy where we bought this....and they sell LG, but I don't know if they know them extremely well, as this is a rural area, he said they don't like to see any ice on that back wall, at all, and when I described the fan noise, he said he thought it was ice accumulating on the fan blades, and they would have to take it all apart, and see what is going on in there with it, and that also it could start wearing out the fan bearings, and then the fridge would eventually stop cooling.

Quite frankly, that sounds logical, but it sounds like you speak from experience when you say this all seems pretty normal, if I'm on the same page as you. I tend to believe you, especially when we've had two of the same refrigerator, with ice in the exact same spots.

 

Are we talking about that big double fan that sits pretty much behind the freezer? Whatever is making this noise sounds like it is right behind the refrigerator compartment when I open the door and hear it wind down, but it could be a little lower, and the sound could resonate up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there only one major fan back there??

[Koi Guy]

I was told a possible issue was the capillary tubing is in contact with the low side tubing. I can imagine a scenario where the cap tube freezes (normal) and the ice locks the low side tubing in place. If it were to snap away this could create a loud popping sound. Also the hint that it could be activity related might be accurate, as the greater the frequency and time the door is open, it proportionately increases moisture and therefore increases ice build up on the cap tube.

I've seen my share of LG friges but have not seen this "popping noise" condition. Interesting, I did see the cap tube against the low side tube, so I know it can occurs. Of course while I was in there I simply bent ne of them to give more space between them. It is plasuible that the customer considered this normal noise or perhaps no noise is occuring

[soulweeper]

I have given this unit, and the previous one,the benefit of the doubt, but I have come to the conclusion that there is no way this sound I hear, which could also be described as a "pop", can be "normal." Like I said, it is loud sometimes. Easily heard in the next room, or a couple rooms away. It does have a "sharp" tone to it, and sounds like something hitting the side of the fridge, because when I tried to duplicate it for the repair guy, I could get very close to the same sound, by giving a nice thump with my knuckle, on the side. Certain spots though, but I could duplicate it.

[soulweeper]

And to add.......and it seems like it occurs more at night......it can make this knock/pop a few times in a 10 minute stretch, or at least a few times in an hour or so, for whatever that's worth. Wouldn't this tube you're referring to, do it once, when it snaps away, and then not do it again for quite some time??? I'm just guessing here, and I want the noise to go away.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Any chance this is one with the new liner compressor?

The way those compressor seem to be beating themselves up, (piston overrun wearing hole thru valves and piston ends all beat up), maybe the noise is coming from the compressor intermittently.

[soulweeper]

I belive it does have the linear compressor, but I don't think this noise is coming from that, but that' just my opinion.

[soulweeper]

@john63.....do you consider this fan noise I described as somewhat "normal". Almost sounded like it's considered that way. Curious what you think, and do you think we need to have it looked at?

It seemed like we didn't hear it at all for a couple days, unless it did it in the middle of the night, while we were asleep. But for whatever reason, it's done it several times this morning

The loud knock we hear sounds like maybe it's this capillary tubing that Koi Guy referred to.

[john63]

The freezer and refrigerator fan motors should not be noisy ---other than air sounds.

The "knock" should not be "normal" either (especially if it's as loud as you've described).

I would have an authorized LG servicer examine the refrigerator.

Have the technician check the tubing per service bulletin number CREF20151710

There are instructions in the bulletin for correct spacing/distance of the refrigerant tubing on the evaporator (in the fresh food compartment)

[soulweeper]

4 minutes ago, john63 said:

The freezer and refrigerator fan motors should not be noisy ---other than air sounds.

The "knock" should not be "normal" either (especially if it's as loud as you've described).

I would have an authorized LG servicer examine the refrigerator.

Have the technician check the tubing per service bulletin number CREF20151710

There are instructions in the bulletin for correct spacing/distance of the refrigerant tubing on the evaporator (in the fresh food compartment)

I just got off the phone with LG, to set up a service call with the people we bought it from, who aren't "authorized" LG service people, but they service what they sell. Don't know how well they know LG, as they said they don't sell a ton of them, but when the first fridge had issues, LG wanted a second opinion, and sent an authorized LG service person, who diagnosed it as the main board, replaced the main board, and then the fridge died the next day. That said, you know I'm not letting those people in my house again.

My question is.......if they sell LG, and LG authorizes them to come out, then they have full access to those service bulletins, yes? Of could you email it to me, if I sent you my address in a pm?

Also.......while on the phone with LG, the guy asked me what my freezer temp is set at, and I told him zero. He put me on hold, and then came back, and said that is the default setting, but where I live, it's too low, and to put it up to 3. He said to lit it go 12 hours and see what happens. I called the place I bought the fridge from, and the owner told me that it might solve it, but he said put it up to 5 degrees, and give it over the weekend. He said he didn't know if that would solve it, but he was on board with that theory as a possibility. He asked me how my ice cream was. He said in the old days.....if you couldn't put a spoon into the ice cream fairly easily, and get a spoonful, it was too cold. He said it's hard to get the accurate temperature, as you have to have a highly accurate thermometer, and have it a jar of Vaseline to check freezer temps. For whatever it's worth, I have felt that ice cream is a little hard to get out of the container, but didn't think much of it.....other than "well, the freezer is definitely freezing", haha. Maybe it is too cold. It's worth a shot, since no one will do anything over the weekend anyway.

 

Does that sound feasible to you?

[john63]

The retailer can provide that information to you---as to whether they are an Authorized Service Center (ASC).

If they are not---then it is unlikely that they've access to Service Bulletins.

Send me your email address and I will get a copy to you.

The freezer should be set at 0F.

If you have a freezer icemaker---it will shut off automatically above 5F.

Is the icemaker in operation right now (making cubes) ?

[soulweeper]

@john63...Yes, it is a freezer icemaker, and yes, it is making ice cubes.

Why would LG tell me to set it to 3 degrees? Oh wait......because the person that answers the phone isn't in the real world, figuring out what makes these tick.

Any chance that doing that thing with a cell phone and the tones, would tell them anything was wrong? I'm surprised they didn't have me do that, to be honest.

[john63]

I can't image why.

The cell phone diagnostics is only for allowing LG customer service to read stored error messages (and perhaps some user related data).

Try this if you able to do so...

If it can be done without spilling contents in the fresh food compartment or toppling items stored on top of the refrigerator---or damaging wood flooring...

Pull the refrigerator out about halfway---with a very sudden movement---push the refrigerator back about 1 foot.

A severe enough disturbance/movement will cause the compressor to knock (does NOT harm the compressor)

The compressor must running to do this.

If you can successfully make the compressor knock---it will allow you compare against the noise you've been hearing loudly and randomly

Edited October 8, 2016 by john63

[soulweeper]

Ok, I'll try to do that maybe tomorrow, after work, or Sunday, when I'm home all day. Just to add, the first fridge made this EXACT same "knock", with the same randomness. Seems improbable that ywo could have a bad compressor, yes?

I might add.....it does "seem" like it makes this noise later at night, but maybe I notice it easier because were sitting down, watching tv, everything is a little quieter, etc. etc.

[john63]

You can also remove the rear service panel---and bang the side of your fist at the compressor to get the knocking noise for comparison purposes.

Good luck---will await your findings:)

[john63]

5 minutes ago, soulweeper said:

Ok, I'll try to do that maybe tomorrow, after work, or Sunday, when I'm home all day. Just to add, the first fridge made this EXACT same "knock", with the same randomness. Seems improbable that ywo could have a bad compressor, yes?

 

The things that I see in my job are really odd at times.No, I wouldn't say that it is improbable at all.

My experience is that things occur in threes.

Like having a 1970s Westinghouse refrigerator with a *unique* three wire defrost timer (replacement).

I tell myself---that's likely to be the last i'll *ever* see one those again.

Then within a month---two more. WTF? 

Strange but true.

[soulweeper]

Wow. Yeah......I'm sure you have some stories to tell, haha.

I do like the banging my fist on the compressor idea a little better, lol.

 

[soulweeper]

I went to your profile, and don't see a way to send you a pm, to give you my email address, for that bulletin. Am I missing something?

 

[soulweeper]

@john63

I couldn't get the compressor to knock. This knock has a kind of hollow sound to it, and I can actually almost duplicate it by "thumping" or flicking, if you will, the side of the refrigerator with my middle finger. If I do it right, it almost sounds identical, for whatever it's worth.

I left the refrigerator set at 3 degrees, just to humor LG. That way when I call them back, I can honestly say I did that, and it didn't change a thing.

I still get that knock here and there, but seems like I haven't heard it as much this week. I doubt that has anything to do with the temperature being set to 3, or if it's just that maybe it does it in the middle of the night, or when were not home. No pattern to it, so hard to say.

It still has the fan noise,. and no apparent pattern to that either, but it's still there.

If you want, and don't mind, you can send that bulletin to jsmith513716@yahoo.com

I have to call LG, and again talk to someone I can hardly understand, to get them to send someone that knows this fridge, that I now hate. I will NEVER buy an LG product again. Ever.