Electrolux Washer GLTF1240ASO - No High Spin

[br0dy519]

Hello all! New to the forum here. This one is really stumping me. And a It’s a well documented. it will not go into high speed spin.

Troubleshooting and backstory so far:

Unit drains fine, around 30 seconds for the water level in the tub to go down significantly. 
Tested and found failed wax motor in door latch (wouldn’t close door closed feedback switch no matter how hot PTC heater got). Replaced. Issue persisted. 
Ohm’d out motor and tachometer. All within spec.
Ohm’d out and tested voltage on control board terminals according to tech sheet in unit. Fuse has not blown on board. Voltages OK, but I got a different value on the terminals vs the tech sheet. (100k ohm instead of 3 meg on pins 1-2 2-3 3-1) so I ordered a replacement control board (used/allegedly tested from a reputable shop). Got board, same 100k reading, replaced anyway and issue persists. 

So I’ve thrown both a speed control and new door latch at this issue and still no resolution. Am I missing something obvious? Is the 100k reading on my control board indicative that I have two bad speed control boards now, or is it possibly a typo in the spec sheet?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to suggestions of where to go next. 

[br0dy519]

Performed additional troubleshooting this evening.

Tested final spin speed control switch (NORMAL, FAST), tests OK.

Tried old timer (previous timer that wouldn't advance, but never had spin issues), also opened up drain pump connections again and moved impeller with hand to ensure no debris, issue remains.. the saga continues

[16345Ed]

Do you have tech sheet? Pretty clear testing procedures are on sheet. Not sure how anyone could give more help than those detailed test procedures. 

[br0dy519]

1 hour ago, 16345Ed said:

Do you have tech sheet? Pretty clear testing procedures are on sheet. Not sure how anyone could give more help than those detailed test procedures. 

Ed, do you mean this troubleshooting guide? If so, then yes this is what I’ve followed. 

[16345Ed]

Maybe explain result of each test? 

[br0dy519]

See results below of the 7 step test procedure per the above tech sheet excerpt. Highlighted in red are areas which deviate from above test point value ranges. All input is greatly appreciated. Being an HVAC controls tech by trade, I'm disappointed in myself and starting to feel defeated by, what on the surface, seems to be a simple issue!

1) Checking drain pump. Drain pump operates correctly in cycle.

2) Removed belt, wash cycle, motor spins fine.

3) 120vAC Present on PIN5-6 on the 6-wire harness at the speed control board.

4) Disconnect both harnesses, ran in heavy wash, below readings from PIN 5 of the 6-pin plug, to 1,2,6,10 of the 10-pin plug:

• PIN5-1 120vac, tech sheet says I should have 0vac?
• PIN5-2 120Vac
• PIN5-6 38Vac, tech sheet says I should have 120vac?
• PIN5-10 120Vac

Due to voltage discrepancies, removed timer motor per the sheet, measured below readings, which are correct per the sheet

• 1C-1B - 0 ohm, continuity
• 5C-5B - 0 ohm, continuity
• 7C-7C - 0 ohm, continuity
• 3C-3B - O/L, open

5) Fuse on control board has continuity

6) PIN1-2, 1-3, 2-3 on the 6-pin female connector on control board all showing around 190k OHM. My old control board also shows around 160k Ohm. I messaged someone selling another control board, and his also shows around 170k OHM. Tech sheet says 3 Meg, I find it hard to believe that 3/3 boards that I've seen are all out of spec? 

7) Motor windings all 2.7 ohm, within spec.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:38 PM, br0dy519 said:

(previous timer that wouldn't advance, but never had spin issues)

The motor control board is what sends power to the timer motor in it's dead spots - the motor control algorithm is controlled by the 4 contacts in timer being on/off sending a binary code to motor board - at that time the timer motor is off and once the motor control has ran it's program it sends power to the timer motor to advance to where the timer contacts for timer motor close.

This problem with the timer not advancing is a known problem with these boards - they can get an electrical glitch and go into a loop and never advance the timer.

You purchased and installed a used board - depending on age of that board it could have the same gremlins.

The problem with the door latch should have taken care of the no spin - if the wax motor wax cartridge seal goes bad the PTC heater will heat the cartridge but it won't extend the plunger because the wax leaks around the seal and it won't spin but will spin in diagnostics on the new models, (I don't remember if the ones with that older generation control board did that or not - I don't think they did).

There is a possibility that the used control board that you received is bad.

[br0dy519]

I appreciate the education and the time you spent replying here, Willie. You are correct- unfortunately these older models do not have a diagnostic cycle that I can find in the service manual.

The other issue with these models is that the speed control board is obsolete! The only available boards are used on the market now. I did find a link to someone who rebuilds them. I'm going to get a bright light and magnifying glass and try to see if I can identify and cold or cracked solder joints. If you have any other ideas, I'm all ears. 

I'm reluctant to purchase an additional control board without definitively knowing that to be the problem point.. who am I kidding.. I'm desperate at this point. I'm placing the order for the other board now.

[br0dy519]

Through extensive Google-fu, I have discovered that I'm not crazy, there was a misprint on the tech sheet. Jake from applianceblog (found in a Google cached page) says to do the following to test the control board:

 

Quote

We ohm test the motor first like you did, then Set your VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) set to read Volts AC. Set the timer to the start of the heavy wash cycle and allow the washer to run for 3 minutes. Measure the voltage drop between pin #5 of the ten pin plug on the speed control board and pin #5 of the six pin plug on the speed control board. If you read 120 VAC replace the speed control board. If you read 0 Volts AC replace the timer.

 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

I don't know why I was even considering those had diagnostics - total mechanical timer - NO DIAGNOSTICS.

I have 5 of those controls boards, (All used), left in stock - 3 are marked 10/25/2007 tested as good boards one marked 6/12/2016 and one of them that I didn't mark for some reason, probably one I pulled from a working machine and forgot to mark.

I'm not sure when the bulletin came out about the boards glitching and hanging up and never advancing the timer but the 3 I have marked Oct2007 as good boards all have the plastic water cover shield and have manufacture date codes of Week-37 of 2000, Week-03 of 2000 and Week-43 of 2000.

The other two have the full aluminum cover which I believe are ones produced after the bulletin came out, (better electronic shielding to prevent glitching - one of these I didn't mark as tested and the other is marked Jun2016 as tested good, (Manufacture date codes of Week-13 of 2004 and Week-39 of 2005).

I don't think I've ever encountered a bad timer on one of this generation of machine except for when the tub went so out of balance or was moved carelessly and the tub hit and broke the timer.

If I recall correctly - this generation of machine has brushes in the motor and that was something else that can cause the no spin, (one side of the brushes wears out a lot faster then the other because of the always hi speed spin in the same direction).  Pull the brush holders and see if one of the brushes are really worn where it's pretty much at the end of it's travel in the brush holder.  If one brush looks worn to it's end of travel you can sometimes with a non-conductive push rod of some type when it should be spinning and it's not push the brush from the backside of the holder against the commutator and see if it makes it start up.

Frigidaire doesn't sell replacement brushes for these motors but there is another brand that uses the same brushes and they used to sell the brushes and holders separate from the motor, (the brand escapes my mind right now - but Bosch is coming to mind - It's been quite a few years since I've worked on one of this generation of Frigidaire Frontloaders).

 

[br0dy519]

Willie, I did have a catastrophic event where one of the retaining springs broke and the tub violently shook out of place for a little before I shut it down. That was prior to replacing the timer, possibly related.

I called around to some of the electric motor shops here, and none of them carry any brushes that would fit mine. I'm trying to see if they are serviceable. I haven't taken the motor apart or even considered that yet. Do you have any guide on how to inspect the brushes? I'm going to take it out tonight and try at it to see. I've only replaced a voltage regulator on a car alternator before, and the brushes were very obvious to see worn against a new set. Never ripped apart a motor itself to inspect before. 

One thing I noticed last night for the first time during a test run, was an obvious burning smell coming from the control board. Upon inspection, BOTH of my control boards have some browning around some of the traces/components on the bottom. Could the motor be taking out the control boards? I thought that it would just take out that soldered on fuse, not the components. Both of my boards have the plastic cover, mfg dates of 2002/2003 from what I saw.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@br0dy519 Looks like I'm a generation behind in my memory of these Frigidaire front loaders.

This is the next generation where they changed the motors from brushed motors to the 3 stator windings (3 wires), tachometer in motor end (2 wires) and ground wire - 6 wire motor plug.

No brushes on these to be a problem - these motors are pretty solid - check the motor connector and harness side connector for any broken wires - I've ran into that on this generation of machine.

Looking at my used control boards I don't see any components that look discolored from overheating.  If you set the motor controller upright like it would be mounted, if you see signs of overheating on any of the 7 black square components mounted to the bottom of the aluminum case as a heatsink, (the first larger one is the Bridge Rectifier Diode - converts AC to DC, and the next 6 smaller ones are the MosFET transistors that control motor winding switching, (it would not be good to see any of the 6 MosFET's overheated/burnt).

Have you checked the fuse in your motor control boards to make sure the fuse isn't blown?

Edited August 26, 2023 by Budget Appliance Repair

[br0dy519]

Thanks again Willie. Third control board arrived today, no visual signs of browning on this one. It was “tested” when I received it. 
 

This board will barely spin, it just bumps the motor. I see 120vac show up then disappear immediately. It also advances the timer way faster than normal. How unlucky am I? 

[br0dy519]

I’m unable to edit posts. Apologies. All fuses have continuity. 

[br0dy519]

I see no option to private message either so I'll ask here- is parts procurement acceptable here? I trust Willie's tested part over the two randoms that I've purchased so far...

[br0dy519]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:00 AM, Budget Appliance Repair said:

There is a possibility that the used control board that you received is bad.

Ran two cycles this evening and success on the new board !

[Budget Appliance Repair]

14 hours ago, br0dy519 said:

Ran two cycles this evening and success on the new board !

Did you get another used board after you said the third used board didn't work above only 22 hours ago? or did you find another board that was actually NEW?

[br0dy519]

Same third board. And I spoke too soon . As randomly as it started working, it now seems to randomly not work! Truly New boards aren’t available, the part number is completely obsolete. Aside from bringing this board to a PCB repair shop, I’m not sure what else to do to ensure consistent wash cycles out of this unit. 

One thing I note when it seems to get “hung up”, not spin, and advance timer quickly, is an obvious “electronics hum” sound emanating from what seems to be the top left of the unit, near the detergent tray. I can’t make sense of what that noise may be or if it is related with my symptoms. 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Only thing really at the top left (back) is the water inlet valve - are you sure the cold water is turned on, (usually rinses are cold water and if not turned on it won't fill for rinse and advance into cycle).

Does that third used board have the plastic cover or is it enclosed in the complete aluminum case?

[br0dy519]

Plastic cover on third board as well. All three have plastic only on the underside on the board. Water inlet valve is filling just fine, water is on. Actually replaced that valve about a year ago.
Want to sell a board? I have a mailbox in Detroit so it would be domestic shipping for you  

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@br0dy519 I misspoke regarding the full aluminum case on the newest part# of these boards - the older ones have a curved plastic shield over the component side of the board and the solder side is cover by the aluminum case.

The newest model of these boards that I referenced as being fully enclosed in an aluminum case are in fact not fully encased - the solder side of the board has a flat plastic cover.

Look at both your original board and the used boards you have and give me the Frigidaire part#'s on each one with the manufacture date code ##/## = WEEK/YEAR

I think I would be willing to send you two of my boards, one of the older ones with the plastic component cover DATE CODE 43/00 (OCT.2000) that I have marked as tested good on 10/25/2007 - this is the newest of the 3 older model ones I have that are all marked tested good on 10/25/2007 and the one newer aluminum cover one that I have marked tested good on 6/12/2016 DATE CODE 13/04 (MAR.2004) - the other newer one is actually newer but I don't have anything marked on it as tested so have no idea of it's state.

If you wanted me to ship these to you I would need $60 which would include the cost of shipping, (my choice of shipping method cheapest insured rate that I can get won't be fast unless you want to pay more for shipping - $50 for cost of the two boards plus whatever the faster shipping fee maybe - I need to find a box they will fit in and get an idea of the shipping cost before I make a solid commitment to you for these boards).

You only have GRASSHOPPER status on this discussion board so I don't believe you can DM me and I don't know if my cell long distance is free to Canada or not - I don't answer my phones so only way to get a hold of me is to leave a message and then I call back - here's my email, that might be better for contact: William.CA95501@Gmail.com

[br0dy519]

@Budget Appliance RepairEmail has been sent. Thank you. 

[Budget Appliance Repair]

@br0dy519 got it - will give you a call Saturday afternoon.

Just looked up what it will cost for shipping

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