Weil McLain 68 boiler (P-368V-wt) or RWB Becket "AFG" series oil burner

[Groovy Mike]

Answering Guru's BEER FUND WILL BE BOOSTED for an answer that gets the heat back on!

I have enjoyed reading this forum several times in the past and thank you for both answers and entertainment.  So here's my first post:

My oil fueled boiler is supposed to heat both my tap water and my baseboard hot water.  We had heat but no hot water.  The repair man came, did a drain and fill and recommended that I clean the exterior of the copper coil which I did in the kitchen sink.  We now have hot water again BUT we no longer have heat to the baseboards!

The same boiler heats the hot water so it fires and heats.  I'm guessing some thermostat type problem? Maybe?

Thermostat on the wall is a Ritetemp 8022C after market programable thermostat.  It has no mercury switch - seems all digital and techy in there.....

Anybody have a clue where I can start trouble shooting?  Did I forget to turn a valve on that I'm not thinking of?  pipes need bleeding? I just don't know.....HELP!

[AccApp]

Lots of things to check, what sort of zoning control(s) do you have? Can you post a pic of the boiler and vicinity? Is the t-stat set for heat? Does it indicate the system is on? Is the t-stat getting a 24v signal from the boiler/zone control? Is the boiler getting 24v back? Is the boiler always on (hot boiler) and does it cycle back on when you draw out domestic water?

[Groovy Mike]

Thanks for the reply AccApp.  Remembering that this is all new to me and recognizing that I may even misunderstand the question, here are the attempted answers:

The system is 2 zones (2 thermostats one for 2nd floor, one for 1st floor).  Both are set for temperatures higher than room temp and both are set to "heat"

The T displays time, programmed temp and current temp so I assume that is indicating that the system is on.

Not sure if it is getting juice.  I'll have to buy a tester.

The boiler fires up every time we open the hot water tap and historically does the same whenever the room temp drops below programmed temp.  It still runs to heat the hotwater on demand, but does not respond to room temp.

It has kicked on a couple of times when no water is running but shuts off almost immediately and long before the room temp raises.

I can post pics.  Is there anything in particular that I should try to capture?

[AccApp]

There are so many ways to set up a Hot Water boiler for multiple zones it is almost impossible for me to guess what you might have. Some pics would certainly help.

[Groovy Mike]

I'll work on getting some posted tonight. 

Question: When I removed the coil I pulled what I assume to be a temperature sensor out of the middle of the coil (looks like a metal stick on a wire feeding through a hole in the center base of the coil ) I did not (intentionally) disconnect any wiring but this sensor is the only thing remotely related to thermostat that I can recall having touched.  If I mucked it up could it shut down the boiler for heating the baseboards but not affect tap water?

Meanwhile I have a call in to the service shop that was at the house but I have had zero response from them thus far.......

Thanks again, Mike

[Groovy Mike]

I can't seem to get the pics to post (dial up) from home .  Will try again tomorrow.  I removed the sensor to get a shot of it and after I took the last picture the boiler kicked on (with that sensor and capillary having been moved outside the coil)  I let it run a few minutes to see if it would shut down, it didn't but it did BLOW STEAM out the drainage pipe on the far left of the whole boiler photo until I killed the power and reinserted the sensor.....:shock:

 

 

[Groovy Mike]

photo try"

[img/]www.myfreebulletinboard.com/f/uploads/survival/post-63-1161820386.jpg/IMG]

[AccApp]

The two green pumps that say "Taco" on them have armored cables going to the boiler control relays. Pop the covers off the boiler control relays and see if they have 120v coming into them and 24v going out of and into them. You should be able to manually actuate the relays inside and cause the pumps to come on as well as the boiler. Don't operate the boiler without the Aquastat (dark gray box marked "Honeywell" in pic) in place, this is not a steam boiler and that is the primary safety device here. What temp and pressure does the tridicator (gauge) read? Are there two red devices that say "Bell and Gosset" in the outlet pipes out of view of the pic? It looks like the unit is setup for "hot boiler". Did you bleed the air out of the system after cleaning the coil?

[Groovy Mike]

pic retry

[Groovy Mike]

Ok sounds like I can't do anything withjout electrical test equipment (which I don't have).  I am trying to get the service guy back for another look but I am not happy with their customer service and they don't seem to want my business .... grrrr.

Since the steam incident we have lost hot water as well making the boiler completely non-functional.

Thanks for trying to help! 

I don't believe the lines have EVER been bled in the 12 years running.  I suppose that is something I should figure out how/where to do.....

[Groovy Mike]

 pic retry 2

[AccApp]

How'd you make out? Did you get a meter?

[Groovy Mike]

I caved and called back the professionals to the tune of $200 to bleed the lines which restored heat but didn't fix the hot water (so back to the ORIGINAL problem before the first service call). He returned for a third visit and replaced the "actuator."

That stopped the hot water from running cold but in the process he manaaged to do something that required re-sodering a pipe but that leak was not part of teh original problem.

 So $300 all told but at least it works now...........

 

[Groovy Mike]

We had the annual boiler cleaning done yesterday and the tech told my wife that the 12 year old boiler was cracked and would need replacing.  He said that he "cemented" the crack but recommended replacing the boiler ASAP.

That can't be good.  I don't see anything that looks like a repair or a crack from a quick visual of the exterior.

What's my next step?  Call in someone for a second opinion?  Start shopping for a new one?  Investigate repair options?  See how long it lasts as is?

Any advice?

[Guest ahammer48]

Hello

Well a second opinion is always a good thing. Spending $65-$100 to C if you REALLY need to spend a few thousand is money well spent. If the tech is correct, then what has happened is the flame has actually burnt a hole thru the fire brick and thru the metal jacket of the boiler. I find it hard to believe that you didn't notice that.

Find out if its just the fire brick that he patched. If yes then there's no problem and your boilers ok. You'll want to replace the fire brick inside the combustion chamber. Its cheaper then replacing the boiler.

Hope this helps:)

[Groovy Mike]

Thanks

[mmorgan]

I have a similar set-up to yours but I have an electric HW. heater also. I am curious about the "cracked" boiler as you didn't mention any water leakage. Was the tech talking about the fire chamber? Because it's made of a soft cerefelt material and is replaceable. Just curious about the final outcome of your problem

[Groovy Mike]

Right, no water leak and no actual damage to the metal.

I had the "crack" cemented for $60.  It is actually where 2 panels are seperating not any actual damage to the cast iron, just a space opening where the 2 panels SHOULD fit together.  The repair guy said that it was most likely caused by ignorant and over zealous cleaning by the prior company scrubbing away the fastener that should hold the panels together.

For $60 instead fo $4000 I'll give the cement a try.