Kenmore Front Loader

[jboet]

Hi, I'm new to the classroom.

I have a Kenmore 417.40142000 front load washer.  When in the final spin cycle, it does not go into the high speed spin.  It just slowly rolls the clothes over until the end of the cycle leaving the clothes soaking wet. It was sporatic in that it has happened several times over the past few months once in a while but would function properly after putting it through the final spin cycle a second time. 

I've tried running the cycle w/o anything inside but it still wouldn't spin up.

In the past year, the rear bearing (a new outer rear tub), the speed control board and pump have been replaced.

Where do I go from here?

Thanks.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Could be new motor time. There's a tech sheet behind the front bottom quarter panel. Retrieve it and you'll find a troubleshooting procedure there which will involve making some resistance and voltage measurements. It pretty much steps you through the process of determining which is bad, the motor or the speed control board.

[jboet]

Yes, I saw that sheet when I was having trouble earlier but cannot track it down now!  Would you by chance have one online?

Thanks

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=11541]jboet[/user] wrote:

... but cannot track it down now!

D'OH! You mean someone *stole* the tech sheet? Dayyam, I HATE when that happens! Well, here's the thing, Budrow-- you just gotsta find that tech sheet 'cuz Kenwhore is real clutchy when it comes to their info. If I knew the Frigidaire-equivalent model number, then I'd have a shot at it. But we ain't got that, which means you need to get that tech sheet. If you need to, you can buy another copy from Sears which, of course, is chargeable as an expense to the job.

[jboet]

I procured a service manual which details the tests.  I saw a test for "Drice motor tumbles but does not spin"

In this test with the machine in the spin positoin, I am testing voltage between pin 5 on the 6 pin plug and pins 6 and 9 on the 10 pin plug.  I am getting 120 volts on pin 6 but zero voltage on pin 9.  Both are supposed to be 120 VAC.  Also, voltage on pin 5 to pins 1,2 and 10 are supposed to read below 50 VAC in the description but I am getting 120.  It does not seem as though the readings I am getting correspond to the book.

Help?   

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

I need to see the tech sheet you're working from 'cuz I can't be sure that the one I have here will work with your'n model, if'n you know what I mean. You can fax it to me at 775-416-4449.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Got your fax.

All the references to pins and plugs can be confusing and I'm suspecting that maybe you didn't make the readings correctly. Let's tabulate what we're supposed to read and what we actually read into a nice, neat little table. See the attachment, print it out, fill it in and then either re-post or fax it to me.

speed-control-bd-test.pdf

[jboet]

I performed the tests as described, although I am getting a zero reading from pin 6 on the 10 pin plug.  Not mentioned in the spec doc.  See the attached pdf.  I did the tests 3 times, same result

MotorTest.pdf

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Hey, great report presentation, you get an "A"!

According to my chemically unimpaired interpretation of the flow chart from your tech sheet, it looks like you need a new timer: http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&P=936636

But, YOWZAH, that timer must be made outta gold! It'd be nice to confirm with a continuity check, I'd need to see the wiring diagram for that.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

Doesn't the test flowchart or sequence say something about setting the timer at a specific point when doing the test for voltage readings on the 10pin plug to #5 on the 6pin plug.

If not set at this specified point I believe you would get wrong readings.

[jboet]

The directions said to set the timer to the spin position.  Since there is no "Spin" labelled on the timer dial, I set it in the Final spin area.  The pump is also running. 

Is there a better way to set it to SPIN?

Thanks

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

That is the spin cycle, where the pump is running. Sounds like you had the timer in the right place, jb.

Good point though, Willie, and worth double-checking.

[jboet]

Samurai,  replaced timer but to no avail.  with new timer still getting 0 volts from pins 5 to 6 as before, 120 everywhere else.  Resistance checks out as well. 

I did something I probably shouldn't have but....during the spin cycle, I helped the drum around by pushing the rear pulley arms.  Maybe this was just enough for the tach sensor to think it was spinning fast enough to allow the motor to spin up to high speed?  Well it spun right up and the remainder of the cycle went normally. 

Is there anything serviceable in the motor? Brushes etc?  My thoughts are that there is either 1. something hindering the drum, but it feels ok empty and w/o the belt, 2. the motor is too weak or 2. the tach sensor is shot.

Thoughts?

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Dayyam, I hate when that happens. But, with virtual troubleshooting like this, it's bound to happen. That's one reason I always like to do confirming measurements. Thankfully, you can return the timer for a refund. That still leaves the problem.

Does it spin normally on its own now or do you still have to help it get into spin? If the former, this really only leaves the speed control board and the motor. Given how we're this far along in the game, let's play it this way in the interest of just getting it done: order both the speed control board and the motor. Replace the speed control board first. If that fixes it, great, return the motor for a refund. If the motor still won't spin without help, then replace the motor.

I hate to do the parts-changing method like this, but sometimes there's just no choice.

[jboet]

Well, since the first thing I replaced in this saga was the speed control board, that leaves the motor as the last straw.  Once it transfers from tumble to spin it spins normally, first fast then picks up to high speed.

Are there continuity/resistance tests can I do to to confirm?

Thanks.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

That's right, I had forgotten that you already replaced the speed control board at the beginning of this saga. If the motor is bad, it's usually the brushes that fail in some way: the holsters crack, the carbon brushes crack, the brushes get stuck and don't extend up to the armature of the motor. Frigidaire (the real manufacturer of this washer) does not call out a part number for just the carbon brushes. In another topic, which I can find for you if interested, one of our Sublime Masters discussed purchasing third-party carbon brushes and grinding them to the right shape to find the holsters on your motor. Let me know if that's of interest to you. Otherwise, you would just buy a new motor at this point: http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=823073