Estate EGD4400WQ0 wont stay hot

[george_]

Dryer fires and runs ,.....flame appears to go off dryer remains turning and flame does not come back on

same with dryer vent removed

Testing with meter on solenoid / ignitor  / radiant sensor successful (they appear fine )

 

any help would be appreciated

 

 

 

[Guest]

Could be a few things.  

The igniter 686590 is high on the list.  Electricity is applied to the igniter when heats up to a glowing orange which in turn causes the gas valve to open and ignite the gas.  The igniter has to stay glowing hot the whole time the dryer is running to keep the gas valve flowing.  You would need to observe it in action to see if it get glowing hot but the gas does not ignite.

Also high of the list High limit thermostat kit 2pcs 3413140 cuts off gas once a certain temperature is reached and then as the air cools it allows the gas to flow again

Dryer radiant sensor 338906 detects the heat of the flame at the burner.

The gas valves themselves theoretically could be intermittenly faulty

There are ways to determine if the thermostats are the problem; one listening very carefully for a click from them as they cycle to an open no power flowing state and then back to closed power flowing.

I certainly would not reccomend using a heavy-guage wire as a jumper to bypass them to see if the issue stops; they are cheap enough to buy and try, and it's too tempting to just leave a jumper in place, so I absolutely would not reccomend that.  Just like I would not reccomend drilling out water saving plugs in a shower head.

Of course there are many other things that could cause this issue such as some sort of blockage of airflow or even lack of air supply in general which really is a form of lack of air flow.

Hopefully that gets you started. 

[evaappliance]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Horshenschwartz said:

The gas valves themselves

Maybe he meant to say gas valve coils,  they are bad about working when they are cold then dropping out when they warm up , then they work again when they cool off .  Sometimes hard to catch !

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, evaappliance said:

Maybe he meant to say gas valve coils,  they are bad about working when they are cold then dropping out when they warm up , then they work again when they cool off .  Sometimes hard to catch !

Yes, gas valve coils is what I meant. Thanks for clarifying that. 

I'm just going by personal experience with my advice.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

11 hours ago, Dr. Horshenschwartz said:

The igniter has to stay glowing hot the whole time the dryer is running to keep the gas valve flowing. 

You don't seem to have the total grasp of how these systems operate.

The hot surface ignitor doesn't work like the hot surface ingnitor in an oven.

In a dryer the hot surface element is only glowing on start-up, the flame sensor senses enough heat from the ignitor thus opening the flame sensor, ignitor power turns off and the secondary gas valve coil is energized to let gas out and hits the hot surface ignitor that is cooling down but still hot enough to light the flame.  As long as the flame is lit it keeps the flame sensor open which keeps the ignitor off tell the cycling t-stat cuts power to the burner and it cycles again.

If the ignitor is cycling on/off and the flame isn't lighting after a cycle or two or 10 to 15 minutes of running then you most likely have a gas valve coil that is breaking down as it heats up from operating and electrically goes to an open state until it cools down again.

[Guest]

Thank you for the correction on my part. 

[Captain Dunsel]

@Dr. Horshenschwartz Maybe you can join to learn more?

 

[Guest]

Maybe some day

[george_]

The igniter 686590 Ohmed out OK
Dryer radiant sensor 338906 ohmed out OK
Coils ohmed out OK
Wasn't clear on how to test High limit thermostat kit 2pcs 3413140 ?
Thoughts ?

[vee8power]

18 minutes ago, george_ said:

The igniter 686590 Ohmed out OK
Dryer radiant sensor 338906 ohmed out OK
Coils ohmed out OK

"Ohmed out okay" doesn't mean a thing.

My professional opinion is to make a DIY repair. That is, replace the gas coils #279834, thermostat #WP3387134, and the hi-limit kit #W11050897. While you're in there, clean up the insides, look for burnt connections, and install a maintenance kit #4392065.

This is called shotgunning in the trade and is used by people who aren't trained to properly diagnose, including yourself. I don't mean to belittle, but I think this is a good, safe way to proceed as a DIY'er. You've wisely eliminated the vent as the cause, so I think my suggestion will almost certainly get your dryer running again and save you from hiring a professional. 

 

[george_]

"Ohmed out okay" doesn't mean a thing.

Right it doesn't but all these tests were within manufacturer specs according to repair clinic testing videos and articles.

I appreciate your guidance and will proceed that way.

Thanks for all your help

[evaappliance]

6 hours ago, george_ said:

Ohmed out okay

You have to catch the coils when they get warm,  run the dryer till the burner shuts down then quickly ohm the coils, when the coils cool down they read good ,  sometimes it is hard to catch, but vee8power is correct also , you may buy more than you need but will still be cheaper than hiring a technician 

[Guest]

On the topic of Professional versus DIY.  Everyone is going to have differnet experiences in their local area.  

For me, I have had a brand new Washing machine and had to call whoever handled Sears purchases at the time and that technician came out and it was clear they didn't have any idea how to diagnose anything.  That person did one small thing and then closed out the ticket without proving the machine now worked correctly. That turns into another call to the service company and for them there is no connection between your previous unresloved problem and your new call.  It was just a game intended to frustrate the consumer enough to give up and buy a new machine.

Then there's a local appliance store with technicians who also play the same game because, in my opinion, they just want you to buy a new machine from them.  My real world example of this was a relative had a relatively new Speed Queen electric dryer that would not heat.  That technician came out and adivsed it was beyond repair and advised buying a new one and charged for the call. I understand charging for the call, no problem with that at all.  My problem is that when I heard about it I went over to check out the dryer and found that the only issue was the thermal fuse, the little oval shaped one that is often the first to go.  I do understand that for the most part there is another facotr in play that caused it to overheat and destorys itself.  In this case there was no obstruction in the vent or anywhere else on the dryer.  I replaced the fuse and it ran as expected without further issue. Point being, another case of "DIY'er" fixed it better than a professional.  There's another used appliance store that sometimes does service work but I know that theor guy is quite elderly and they have limited appointments.  Point being this option is no better than the otheres because there's virtually no availability.  

I am not aware of anyone else in our area that can be considered a "professional." 

In my opinion the appliance service industry is as prevalent and lead baloons. 

So for those who look at us DIY'ers as rubes; who do you suggest we call as a professional? 

As you all know, service manuals are for the most part locked away from us and we are left with trying to figure this stuff out on our own all the while there's professionals who look down on us as one DIY tries to help another DIY.  

 

 

[evaappliance]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Horshenschwartz said:

That technician came out and adivsed it was beyond repair and advised buying a new one and charged for the call. I understand charging for the call, no problem with that at all.  My problem is that when I heard about it I went over to check out the dryer and found that the only issue was the thermal fuse, the little oval shaped one that is often the first to go. 

i have seen this with the speed queens in my area,  this is not good !!!!   

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, evaappliance said:

i have seen this with the speed queens in my area,  this is not good !!!!   

In principal I do agree with you that a fuse blowing is not good because there is a root cause.  I think that is what you are saying.

So my issue is I determined there was nothing burnt in the wiring, nothing clogging the vent, and no issue issue with fresh air so therefore this is an anomoly which that technician would have determined as well, and if he did find something it was not told to anyone.  

For this, I think it's fair and safe to replace the fuse and move on with life.  If it happens again then maybe be suspect.  My thought is there are things that can happen to temporairly block the vent that I could never prove; the number one thing being one of the kids using the vent air to warm up with in the freezing cold and by doing this they could have stopped the flow of venting air causing the dryer to overheat and pop the fuse.  In theory some animal could have been in the vent long enough to cause the same.

 

[evaappliance]

I was meaning I’ve been seeing so called techs condemning speed queens with little wrong with them,  that’s not good .  That being said ,when you went over to check the dryer , fixed thermal,check vent , see if it does it again would be exactly what I would have done

[Guest]

2 hours ago, evaappliance said:

i have seen this with the speed queens in my area,  this is not good !!!!   

 

2 hours ago, ServiceTech_Daniel said:

I personally wouldn't go by a meat probe . I use a temperature thermal gun you can buy at harbor freight 

https://www.harborfreight.com/121-infrared-laser-thermometer-63985.html

I will stick a cast iron skillet in the oven, preheat it to 350 and once its out of preheat , use my thermal gun and take a surface temp of the cast iron skillet . Hasn't failed me yet  

Yes i would agree , using a oven thermometer would be better

 

I see now, wasn't sure.  Thank you for the backup.  Best thing I ever did was buy a Speed Queen washer when I saw it on Craigslist a few years ago.  Zero issues.  Bought a Honda Mower and that was a game changer too, I'll never buy anything else and I plan to keep this one running for life.

[igloo]

22 hours ago, Dr. Horshenschwartz said:

On the topic of Professional versus DIY...that technician came out and it was clear they didn't have any idea how to diagnose anything... technician came out and adivsed it was beyond repair and advised buying a new one ..I went over to check out the dryer and found that the only issue was the thermal fuse,... another case of "DIY'er" fixed it better than a professional. 

I think @vee8power meant skilled and experienced vs unskilled and inexperienced.

There are skilled DIYers who know how to test electrical circuits and unskilled ones and there are unskilled or inexperienced or cheating Pros, too and any combinations of these.

There are also the skilled but inexperienced and there are the experienced but unskilled when it comes to troubleshooting electrical appliances. Their experience may be with swapping parts and not understanding circuits.

One thing DIYers and Professional techs have in common is we all have aptitude for figuring out technical things. We are all in a different place on the skilled and experienced scale and we're all constantly learning. Please don't take his advice to change all parts as an insult which I'm sure it wasn't. In fact it was good advice.

When @vee8power suggested for you @george_ to just replace all these parts, it's because of your comment about Ohming of the components and taking that as sufficient testing.

A skilled person, Pro or DIYer, would also use live voltage tests, amp measurements and temperature measurements to confirm the condition of these components and wiring. For this you need certain knowledge and special tools like an amp clamp and a thermocoupled multi meter. You potentialy also have a intermittently working component, which can be best diagnosed after proving there are no other faults first and this being the only thing left, or by a "Pro and DIYer shortcut" to pop in a new coil to see if it changes anything, even before starting other tests. We carry these coils on the truck.

For what it's worth, I change most commonly failing parts on the washers and dryers I sell before I sell them, even when there's nothing wrong with them yet, so I know it will last for few more years. The owners are happy when I tell them it has all these new parts and it's a selling point, because it's almost like warranty. I do the same with my friends' and family's appliances. Car guys do this with their souped up cars. You should feel good about that too.

Statistically most DIYers who try to fix their appliances for the first time, their motovation is to spend as little as possible, instead of focusing on having their appliance last. They'd use used parts or duct tape if they could and feel that much more proud about it. A technician would most likely want to upgrade their appliance with new quality parts that they know will last another lifetime of the part.

Edited January 9 by igloo
added name tag of original poster

[Guest]

 

For what it's worth the comment was mine and I'm not the original poster on this thread. 

For all of the time that online communication has been a thing; nobody has mastered a way to communicate that accurately reflects tone. 

I felt the need to say something because of some recent messages I have seen that come off as derogatory towards the DIY person; as well as some very old messages here that explain the focus of this website in general.  I learned the term Parts Changing Monkey on this website many years ago under another name that I long lost my name or password for. I've literally considered that term every single time I work on something that has parts. It's a valuable term and I understand the meaning of it. 

I kind of felt like some needed to be reminded that not everyone can find an honest qualified non-parts-changing-monkey no matter where they look. Even for myself as a person who tried to offer my interest in fixing what is actually wrong I just ran into mostly people who thought the repair should be something like $20. Total. I gave that up fairly quickly because there was no ability to recognize how what I was doing differently than others, and generally no gratitude either. 

 

[george_]

Dr. Horshenschwartz Is correct - Thank you

"The gas valves themselves theoretically could be intermittenly faulty"

once warmed up they not longer worked until replaced