Whirlpool washer LSR7133KQ0 spins but will not agitate

[L Ron Drunkard]

My 25+ year-old Whirlpool topload washer stopped agitating mid-cycle on the standard wash.  Strong smell of burnt electrical.  Turned it off, turned it back on, humming sound.  No agitation. but spin cycle works.

After watching multiple videos and reading several troubleshooting guides, I tore the machine apart have assessed the following:

1 - drive coupling is in good shape.

2 - clutch has good resistance

3 - motor turns freely in both directions.  When connected to the transmission, I can turn the motor shaft clockwise and get the basket to spin.  I can also turn it counter clockwise and the agitator does the correct back and forth motion.

4 - The capacitor tests at 211 microFarads

5 - It was hard to find the continuity checks for the motor contacts that matched my my motor*.  The overload circuit tested okay.  The centrifugal switch tested okay when manually depressed, though when i opened up that switch the contacts had a lot of carbon so I cleaned those up with DeOxit.  But how does that switch engage in the first place?  When I put it back on the motor, I can't figure out what happens that "lifts" the switch and turns it "on".

6 - With motor and transmission installed, but pump removed and lid switch manually engaged, I can see the motor spin clockwise in spin cycle.  It does not spin counterclockwise like it should for agitate.  but I get a hum.  Does water need to be in the tub for the agitate cycle to properly kick on?

When I disconnected the hoses from the water inlet valve I cracked the plastic housing.  Until the new one arrives I can't test the full fill/wash cycle.  If I need water in the tub to properly start the agitation cycle, I guess I could manually add water, though I don't know the proper fill line.

Seems to me that I either have a dial switch problem or there is still an issue with the motor.  Any further thoughts on what I should check, and how, would be greatly appreciated.

* These are the motor circuit tests I did -  https://www.applianceaid.com/direct-drive-washer-motor-help.php   Checks A, B and E are good.  C and D do not apply because this motor does not have terminals for orange or violet wiring.  Test F is interesting.  When switch is engaged, contact is made between red and black, but not orange and blue.  But, removing the switch cover reveals that there is no way orange and blue could ever make contact.  The switch ONLY engages the red and black contacts.

Thanks for your time

[igloo]

Post a picture of the schematic that's on the inside of the control panel. That way someone here can help you better.

[L Ron Drunkard]

Here's the schematic.  Thanks

[igloo]

Take a close look at the motor harness connector and the red wire, to see if it's pulled out of the spade connector inside the harness connector. Sometimes they like to come loose, but stay inside disconnected, so the circuit is interrupted to the motor contacts on the start winding.

Disconnect the harness and see if you have continuity from the plug-in side of the harness on the red wire to the other end of that red wire that leads to the capacitor from the motor.  Disconnect that red wire from the capacitor to test for continuity. If don't hear a beep, then the red wire in disconnected inside the harness.

 

Edited February 22 by igloo

[L Ron Drunkard]

I checked that red wire as you suggested and it does have connectivity.   I also got the new inlet valve in and installed it (the old one cracked when taking the hoses off).  I put everything back together, plugged it in and ran it through a cycle.  Everything worked.

That's great and all but I still have no idea what was actually wrong.  The only thing I found was that the contacts on the centrifugal switch were pretty burnt/carbed up.  I cleaned those.  Other than that, all I did was remove the motor and transmission, inspect them and reinstall them.

Do these machines have a safety shut off if a component overheats, or if there is too much resistance on the motor, say from an oversized load, or something?   Though, I was only running a medium load when the machine stopped working so I doubt it was overloaded.

 

[igloo]

17 hours ago, L Ron Drunkard said:

Do these machines have a safety shut off if a component overheats, or if there is too much resistance on the motor, say from an oversized load, or something?   Though, I was only running a medium load when the machine stopped working so I doubt it was overloaded.

Yes, it's the switch inside the motor that the white wires go to. It will cut off power to motor in case of overheating until it cools down. Then it will allow power to motor again in few minutes. 

If your motor bearings are starting to bind, this could cause overheating, burning smell and motor to trip out. If the windings test good and the capacitor is good and the wire connections are tight, then this could be the case that shows itself during a heavy load of laundry.

But sometimes reconnecting wires like you did will get a better connection on the contacts and correct problem like yours, maybe just temporarily. Loose or dirty connection in the start circuit could cause the motor to struggle too.

Edited February 25 by igloo

[L Ron Drunkard]

Latest update - after running a full cycle (no clothes) while I had the case off, I put everything back together, put it back in position, and tried running a small load of laundry. 

It filled with water but refused to even start agitating.  I tried hand turning the agitator to see if iit would engage but no luck.  I could hear a hum and muted click click click sound.  Tried getting it to spin/drain but nothing there either.  Turned it off and I pulled it back out from the wall about a foot so I had room to work. I though it would be useful to get a video of the noise it was making.  So I started it again and then it ran fine and completed the cycle.

That was yesterday.  Today (about 24 hours later) I tried to run a medium load (but didn't put clothes in it yet just in case).  I got the hum with the click click click sound and no agitation/spin/anything.  The click sound seems to be coming from the timer dial.  I noticed that that lasts about 20-30 seconds and then goes quiet (I presume that is the overload circuit doing its job).  I came up here to type this but before hitting send thought I would try starting it again.  It's been about 30 minutes.  It started right up and is running fine now.

Re: motor bearings - when I had it apart, I could easily turn the shaft with my fingers.  I didn't feel any resistance.  I could even get the turn the motor shaft (with a little more force, of course) when it was connected to the transmission.  I just don't feel any issues there.  If it were bearings. wouldn't they be a problem all the time?  

I did the motor tests as outlined here ( https://www.applianceaid.com/direct-drive-washer-motor-help.php) but I've seen online that without putting a load on the circuit, you might not be able to properly test the motor.  I also checked all the wiring connections at the motor and they all seem/look good and clean (no sign of arcing, carbon build up.

Admittedly, I don't really understand yet how the motor circuit works.  There is a start winding and then the regular winding, so the motor has a start circuit and then a running circuit?  Is that right? 

what role does the the centrifugal switch play?  what causes that to engage?  When I had it out I could see that something acts on the white lever engaging the switch but I couldn't figure out what or how.

 

 

 

 

 

[L Ron Drunkard]

Shouldn't the centrifugal switch be closed (making contact) when the motor is not running?  when the motor gets up to speed it then should open up, right?

[igloo]

7 hours ago, L Ron Drunkard said:

Shouldn't the centrifugal switch be closed (making contact) when the motor is not running?  when the motor gets up to speed it then should open up, right?

yes

[igloo]

[igloo]

 

When you have the cabinet off, make sure you have a solid stable jumper in the lid switch, slide the pump off the motor with hoses still attached and out of the way before running the washer, turn it on, then if it hums, turn the motor shaft with your hand to see if it starts. 

Speaking of the pump, might be a good idea to take it off and check inside. Sometimes things get stuck in there and tie up the impeller and stall the motor. Could be intermittent depending how and what is enlodged in there.

The schematic shows a one speed motor, the parts sites show a multi speed motor for your model and the site you used to measure resistances is for a multi speed motor. So I can't tell you if your resistance check of the motor windings were right. Picture of your motor and connector would help to determine which motor you have.

Edited February 27 by igloo

[L Ron Drunkard]

I haven't had a chance to pull the cab again but yes, this is a one speed motor and that matches the schematic that was with the machine.  I do not have the extra wiring that the multi-speed motors require (e.g., there is no violet wire).

I will check the pump again but it appears to be clear.   and yeah, I found a video where the motor won't turn but with a little help it spins right up so I will try manually turning the shaft too if it won't start.

I dug into how centrifugal switches work online yesterday and I think I have an idea of what could be happening.  If the mechanical "switch" that is located on the motor drive shaft is getting stuck in the "in" position somehow, then, when the motor is stopped, it will not engage the white lever that closes the contacts of the electrical switch.  when the motor goes to start up, the start circuit is open, so the motor won't turn.  This is just my theory at this point but I remember that when I reinstalled that switch after inspecting and cleaning it, that white lever wasn't engaged at all, leaving the contacts open.  I couldn't see in there very well and at the time didn't understand how that switch worked or what was supposed to engage the switch.  but now I think I get it.  Maybe something is stuck in there, or a spring has broken, or it just gummed up.

btw, I was able to run another load of laundry yesterday after a few failed starts.  Once it starts, it seems to work fine throughout the entire cycle.

thanks again for your help on this.  I'll keep you posted

 

[L Ron Drunkard]

I took the pump off and checked the centrifugal switch.  The mechanical part on the motor is doing what it is supposed to and the switch is indeed in the "on" position upon start up.   I also took the cover off the centrifugal switch and using a screw driver manually depressed the centrifugal plates.  I could see the switch contacts open and close like they are supposed to.  Still, I tried starting the motor several times and it would not start on its own.

But if I gave the motor shaft a slight turn it would start right up.  I did this several times and it started right up every time.  I could also see the contacts opening and closing in the switch properly.  Then, on about the fifth start test, the motor started up without my assistance. 

So I  put the pump back on and tried running a cycle.  It started up and ran a complete wash/rinse/spin cycle without issue.

Clearly, I have an inconsistent problem.  The motor shaft turns freely.  The capacitor tested at well over 200 microfarads (I forget the exact number).  The mechanical and electrical parts of the centrifugal switch are working properly.  

So, is it the motor itself?   an intermittent short in the start winding?  Am I to the point of just replacing parts to see what happens?   I don't really know how to test the motor other than testing the resistance for the start and main windings as per that link.  It appears to me I only have a one-speed motor (see photos).

[L Ron Drunkard]

FYI: Whirlpool says that the new multi-speed motor WP661600 replaces the old single-speed motor 8258158 motor that I currently have.

[igloo]

Double check the connections at the capacitor. Make sure they are not loose and don't wiggle side to side. Have another close look at the red wire inside the harness connector. Pull on it a bit, look deep inside to see if it may be partially loose or partially broken or burned.

Take the pump off, take the motor off the transmission, lay the motor on the ground with harness connected and run it. This will show if the transmission is what was stalling it. When it's out, transmission can't influence it. If it just keeps running without problems off the transmission and on the ground, the transmission could be the problem, stalling the motor sometimes. 

If the motor still hums or needs a push to get going while it's out, leave the machine in spin with motor getting power, pull the plug from the outlet to remove power from the washer but leave the timer on.

Take the motor harness connector off the motor and measure resistance between motor contacts where the red wire goes and where the yellow wire goes. That's the start winding. What is that resistance? Now put the harness back on the motor. If it's out of spec, the start winding may be faulty.

Now go to the timer and memorize (take a picture) where the red wire, yellow wire, blue wire and white wire with a black stripe go. You need to measure resistance on the contacts underneath, with the harness removed, between the yellow wire contact and the white wire with a black stripe contact on the timer. Make sure you have a solid steady connection with your leads. Then measure between where the red and the blue wire go on their contacts. Write the resistance down with all decimals. For example 0.05 Ohms. Now look closely at those 4 wires in the harness to see if they are not burned or loose. Then put the harness back on the timer. If the resistance is higher than normal, you could have a bad connection in the timer.

[Guest]

I had a lot of the same symptoms with a top load washer recently.  Had the motor and pump out three times.  

Motor worked good out of the machine. 

For some reason I decided to change the pump and it's worked fine since then, about 2.5 months now. 

Was it the pump? Do t know for sure. Another theory was contacts in the timer had failed; a reasonable theory which I'll check if the problem comes back. 

So for what it's worth maybe it's the pump. My thought was internally the pump was binding on something I couldn't see. I still have it intending to cut it open to see. 

 

[igloo]

Always a good idea to change the pump on these to prevent problems. They like to spring a leak from a hairline crack when they get old. Why wait for it? While you're at it, I'd change the coupling and lid switch. They're cheap enough and are parts that wear out.

But I think Ron said he had the pump off when it stalled again. That leaves the transmission, the motor or the motor circuit.

Edited March 5 by igloo

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, igloo said:

Always a good idea to change the pump on these to prevent problems. They like to spring a leak from a hairline crack when they get old. Why wait for it? While you're at it, I'd change the coupling and lid switch. They're cheap enough and are parts that wear out.

But I think Ron said he had the pump off when it stalled again. That leaves the transmission, the motor or the motor circuit.

In all fairness I should have said that my motor also failed to spin up out of the machine. I had to just barely touch the pulley to get it spinning.  With that I suspect fouled contacts in the timer as one of the regulars here had suggested.  

For my situation I'm leaning towards the idea that the timer contacts were fouled and changing the pump really wasn't the issue but was going to be an issue soon. I feel like the contacts somewhat just cleaned themselves up after so many cycles on and off testing the motor. 

Can't prove any of it. 

I didn't read this whole thread, I just saw a lot of mentions of the same issues I had a d figured I'd offer what I did. 

[L Ron Drunkard]

16 hours ago, igloo said:

Double check the connections at the capacitor. Make sure they are not loose and don't wiggle side to side. Have another close look at the red wire inside the harness connector. Pull on it a bit, look deep inside to see if it may be partially loose or partially broken or burned.

Take the pump off, take the motor off the transmission, lay the motor on the ground with harness connected and run it. This will show if the transmission is what was stalling it. When it's out, transmission can't influence it. If it just keeps running without problems off the transmission and on the ground, the transmission could be the problem, stalling the motor sometimes. 

If the motor still hums or needs a push to get going while it's out, leave the machine in spin with motor getting power, pull the plug from the outlet to remove power from the washer but leave the timer on.

Take the motor harness connector off the motor and measure resistance between motor contacts where the red wire goes and where the yellow wire goes. That's the start winding. What is that resistance? Now put the harness back on the motor. If it's out of spec, the start winding may be faulty.

Now go to the timer and memorize (take a picture) where the red wire, yellow wire, blue wire and white wire with a black stripe go. You need to measure resistance on the contacts underneath, with the harness removed, between the yellow wire contact and the white wire with a black stripe contact on the timer. Make sure you have a solid steady connection with your leads. Then measure between where the red and the blue wire go on their contacts. Write the resistance down with all decimals. For example 0.05 Ohms. Now look closely at those 4 wires in the harness to see if they are not burned or loose. Then put the harness back on the timer. If the resistance is higher than normal, you could have a bad connection in the timer.

I'll do this tonight.  Just to be certain, for the agitation mode to work, the tub has to be filled to the corresponding load size setting, right?  

[igloo]

1 hour ago, L Ron Drunkard said:

I'll do this tonight.  Just to be certain, for the agitation mode to work, the tub has to be filled to the corresponding load size setting, right?  

Usually yes, when the cycle runs on it's own, but there is a spot on the timer in regular-heavy cycle you can advance it to, where it will dry agitate.

Edited March 6 by igloo

[L Ron Drunkard]

Well, I am at a lost for the time being.  It is working.  In fact, right now.  I can't get it to NOT work.

I pulled the motor and it worked on spin mode.  I filled the tub with water to the small load setting and tested the agitation (in normal and permanent press cycles).  The motor started right up.  I reinstalled the motor.  again, it worked in all cycles.  I could easily turn the motor shaft with my fingers and was even able to make the agitator move (in both directions) just using my fingers to turn the motor shaft.  

Resistance on the motor contacts between the red and yellow wires is 7 ohms.   Resistance between the white and blue contacts returned 1.5 ohms.

With the timer on in the Spin position, I checked the contacts on the timer.  I only have an analog multi-tester, but resistance was close to zero as you can get.  I calibrated my multi-tester resistance before each reading and basically, the needle did not move off of 0 when connecting the leads to the yellow wire and the white/black wire contacts, or the red and blue wire contacts.  No sign of burning or corrosion on either the timer contacts or the wiring harness 

I also checked the contacts at the capacitor.  Though they could be moved, they were definitely making contact, but I still removed the leads and compressed the prongs on each.  they are definitely tighter now, but like I said, the machine worked before I did this anyway.

I think the only thing I can do is try these tests again the next time it fails to start...

[L Ron Drunkard]

27 minutes ago, igloo said:

Usually yes, when the cycle runs on it's own, but there is a spot on the timer in regular-heavy cycle you can advance it to, where it will dry agitate.

huh, would that be the tiny blue mark on at the edge of the dial?   That does cause the agitator to turn but it does start to fill with water.  anyway, it's working now kinda hard to diagnose the problem...:/

[igloo]

1 hour ago, L Ron Drunkard said:

I also checked the contacts at the capacitor.  Though they could be moved, they were definitely making contact, but I still removed the leads and compressed the prongs on each.  they are definitely tighter now, but like I said, the machine worked before I did this anyway.

If connectors wiggle, that's a loose connection. Making contact is not enough. It has to be tight. This could very well be the cause of a intermittent problem in the start circuit. If it keeps working from now on, that's what is was.

If problem returns, check closely if the red wire inside the motor harness connector is partially broken. Again, very important for all connections to be tight and a wire hanging on by few strands will not deliver full power to the motor even if it shows continuity. This red wire in the harness is known to break due to strain on it as the washer shakes.

The timer contacts can't be tested for poor connection unless you have a digital meter that will show you decimals of Ohms.

[Budget Appliance Repair]

9 hours ago, L Ron Drunkard said:

would that be the tiny blue mark on at the edge of the dial? 

Yes, if the machine has the dry agitate spot, that would be it - if not marked it could have it or NOT.

[vee8power]

You can disconnect the pressure switch and put a jumper between violet and tan wires to simulate a tub full of water.