KitchenAid KSGG700ESS - Oven not reliably igniting

[stargrave]

Hello, I recently bought a used KitchenAid gas stove, model KSGG700ESS. All was working well at first, but recently I have noticed that sometimes after preheating to temp when the oven attempts to light to maintain temp, the gas will come on but the igniter will fail to spark (though there is an audible clicking sound), and eventually the oven just cools, with futile clicking throughout.

Perhaps relevant to note, sometimes the burner fails to light after one ignition attempt, but the following one a couple minutes later is successful.

I have found this is unreliably resolvable by turning the oven off and back on, which sometimes gets the oven to re-preheat to temp. 

Thank you for any insight

~Karl

[citizenX]

Intermittent problems are the best and these DSI (direct spark ignition) systems can be a royal PIA sometimes. It uses an electronic board that detects when a flame is present and will try to relight (spark) if it senses the flame goes out. Many oven/broilers just use a simple glow bar ignitor that either works or it doesn't but these DSI spark systems are a different animal. They are very dependent on a good electrical ground and a good ground connection where the ignitor electrode is mounted to the burner. Your symptoms sound pretty typical for a DSI fault. 

First, make sure the outlet the stove is plugged into is properly grounded. Also, check the electrode on the oven burner and make sure the very end of it where the spark jumps off of is clean and has no gunk or grease or oxidation build up, and that the bracketing is all tight and secure. Sometimes just cleaning/scuffing things up a bit (even if it doesn't look dirty) can re-establish a good ground connection where the spark jumps to the oven burner. Also, it is possible the ceramic insulators around the electrode could be cracked and the spark is jumping through a crack to ground and not igniting the gas. Also check the spark wire itself that runs from the DSI board to the oven burner electrode to make sure it's not pinched or cut somewhere.  If everything else checks out then I'd suspect the DSI spark module board. The board isn't cheap though, around $200 I believe, so check and clean all your grounds first. 

[stargrave]

Many thanks, I will check that all out! 

[stargrave]

Indeed that was the problem, turns out the outlet ground wasn't connected! Jeez. Thank you so much, you have saved me a great deal of stress and headache. 

[citizenX]

1 hour ago, stargrave said:

Indeed that was the problem, turns out the outlet ground wasn't connected! Jeez. Thank you so much, you have saved me a great deal of stress and headache. 

Excellent. Glad to help and glad it was something so simple.  

[stargrave]

Hello again citizenX! Well, as hopeful as it had looked that the ungrounded outlet was the sole cause of the problem, it appears I am not to be so lucky. I live in a very old building with a lot of electrical funniness to say the least, so there are a lot of variables to eliminate  

I am hoping you would be able to explain to me the function and importance of a ground for a DSI in order to better troubleshoot and diagnose, and then perhaps come back with a comprehensive description of whatever problem my oven has. 

Many thanks for your help, this forum has been a tremendous resource to me. 

[citizenX]

Dang. Welcome to the world of problematic DSI ovens.

Well, in a nutshell, the purpose of a good electrical ground is because the DSI system uses the ground to sense when there is a flame present. The flame from the burners interrupts the ground path from the end of the electrode where the spark jumps off from and the DSI board senses this and stops the sparking because it knows there is a flame present. If your power receptacle is properly grounded and polarized, and you have verified ground to the oven, then the problem is in the oven.

Re-read what I posted above about the electrodes, spark wires, and about checking and cleaning the burners, specifically the area near the end of the electrodes where the holes are for the gas. The spark jumps off the end of the electrode to ground and if it is dirty or corroded it can interfere with the ground path and the DSI system won't sense that the flame is present and it will keep sparking, or the spark can be directed in another direction (away from the gas flow) seeking a different ground path and never ignite the gas. You can usually take the racks and oven bottom out and visually watch it to see if you are getting a spark at the proper electrode. Also note, with many ovens, they will share a common spark (to the surface burners anyway), so just because you hear a spark, doesn't mean the burner in question is actually sparking.

Honestly, I almost cringe when I get a service call on a DSI oven because more often than not, you're just chasing your tail trying to find a loose ground or bad wiring connection and the problem ends up being in the DSI board anyway. That said, I've had some where I've replaced the DSI board, electrodes, spark wires, and it still continues to have an intermittent problem. They can be a pain and like I said the boards aren't cheap so do your best to check everything else out first. Good Luck! 

[stargrave]

Thanks for your continuing help CitizenX. I have not yet had time to check if the spark wire is damaged or pinched, that will be my next step. I cleaned the electrode thoroughly and the house etc all seems to be tight and in order. I wanted to add a symptom and a detail that may help in diagnostics. Occasionally the oven gives me the F6E1 error code, which seems indicate "runaway temperature", or otherwise some thermometer/temperature control problem. However, when my oven is igniting, it never actually has any temperature control issues (I have an analogue themometer that I can check against). Ultimately you can dismiss this error code by resetting power, so it's inconvenient at worst, but it does perhaps add to the mysterious problem. The detail I wanted to add is that when the oven doesn't light, the electrode is not sparking. It can be light manually and all proceeds fine, untill it needs to maintain temperature and fails to ignite again. I have found no rhyme or reason as to when it will work and when it won't. Sometimes it lights and can't maintain temp, sometimes the opposite etc etc. Anyhow, I just wanted to add that, and thank you again. I am hoping to check spark wire this weekend.