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Kenmore 90 Series Top Loader Spin Issue


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ClassicMachines
Posted

My 110.23012100 Kenmore top loader shuts off as the final spin cycle starts.  If I push the main dial in to off and let it sit for 5 - 10 minutes it will start and spin normally.  If the load is large it may take a few tries to get it to spin without shutting off.  Small loads usually start the spin the first time after the rest period.  The timer and capacitor are new (problem occurred with older timer and cap also).  I cleaned all carbon from the interior contacts of the motor start switch.         Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for the cause of this.  Its a great machine and has the warm water rinse that no one makes anymore

Posted (edited)

Had a whole thing posted until I realized you said it shut off, not just wouldn't spin.  Could be the motor thermal device tripping if it's struggling to turn.  This could point to a failing motor, transmission seizing, possibly a broken brake release.  

Edited by RobinWinter
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Ignore this one, I misread

Edited by RobinWinter
ClassicMachines
Posted

UPDATE: I replaced the motor with a brand new Whirlpool motor and included start switch. The same problem continues (final spin starts, but sounds "weak". About 2 seconds later the motor stops. After turning off the machine and letting it rest for about 15 minutes I can start it again to finish the spin cycle. If I don't shut off the machine when it stops on it's own the timer keeps advancing as normal, but no actual spin. Transmission is 1 year old, new timer, new drive basket/clutch, new capacitor. I read somewhere but can't find it anymore about capacitor wiring issues. My capacitor is mounted on the back wall of the washer cabinet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

ClassicMachines
Posted

One more clarification.  The machine ran through a full cycle fine with just water but had the spin/stop issue with a medium size load of clothes

ClassicMachines
Posted

Today I installed a new water pump in case the old one was causing a drag load.  I also installed a new transmission (had one sitting in storage due to a previous shipping fiasco), new clutch (3 pad), and new capacitor.  Unit ran through all cycles fine with just a tub of water (small load setting).  The final spin worked as it should with line voltage dropping to 113 from the fill/agitation/rinse line voltage of 119.  I thought the problems were behind me finally.

I put in a light blanket in to wash. Agitation and rinse worked OK. When it got to the fill and drain cycle that is just before the final spin it started to spin and line voltage dropped to 111 and it stopped.  I let it cool 15 minutes, pulled the knob to "on" and it started up a strong spin.  When the timer (new timer) advanced to the final spin it did the weak spin start again , line voltage dropped to 111 and the washer stopped.  Assuming motor thermal switch (new motor) again

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
 

Posted

That's a lot to unwrap at this point.  Hot motor? The motor coupling install causing pressure on the motor. You never stated that the machine completed the 1st spin only that the final spin faulted.

That voltage drop is concerning. Have you tried a different outlet? You've removed the inner basket so thats all clean in between, right? Somethings causing drag if that motor's heating up and it needs to rest. Good luck

Posted

As was suggested,  I would also recommend trying another receptacle on a different circuit as it sounds like there could be a power issue. The thing is, the machine doesn't really do anything different when it spins for the rinse or the final spin (except maybe a slower spin on the rinse if this machine is set up that way) so if it was a power issue I would think it would do it on the first drain/spin as well. You've already replaced the all the major components so there's not much left. 

I was also thinking is there possibly something causing the inner tub to drag like a piece of clothing or something else caught in between the tubs? And just for clarification, does it stop ONLY on the final spin or also during the first drain/spin just before the rinse fill? 

Posted

I vaguely remember, that on some of these machines, the final spin has a different set of contacts that close in the timer. That is if I remember correctly. Check the timer chart and the schematic and then check the wiring. Also the red capacitor wire at the motor harness sometimes partially breaks or gets loose inside the harness connector. Measure amps on the motor and see what you get.

ClassicMachines
Posted

Today I installed a new water pump in case the old one was causing a drag load.  I also installed a new transmission (had one sitting in storage due to a previous shipping fiasco), new clutch (3 pad), and new capacitor.  Unit ran through all cycles fine with just a tub of water (small load setting).  The final spin worked as it should with line voltage dropping to 113 from the fill/agitation/rinse line voltage of 119.  I thought the problems were behind me finally.

I put in a light blanket in to wash. Agitation and rinse worked OK. When it got to the fill and drain cycle that is just before the final spin it started to spin and line voltage dropped to 111 and it stopped.  I let it cool 15 minutes, pulled the knob to "on" and it started up a strong spin.  When the timer (new timer) advanced to the final spin it did the weak spin start again , line voltage dropped to 111 and the washer stopped.  Assuming motor thermal switch (new motor) again

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

 

Thanks for the useful input.  Today I used a kill a watt to measure amps..  At spin startup it's about 9.5 amps then drops to a consistent +- 7.7 amps for the duration of the spin.  This is at any position on the dial that is a spin mode.  My wife has advised me that it has,in fact, stopped (overheated) at the spin position right after the initial wash agitation.  I've had the drum out several times and there are no objects or clothing between the tub and drum.  One thing that I noticed is that the drum does not turn by hand when the machine is off.  Is it supposed to turn by hand when off?  All tests today were run with no clothes/no water.  My wife also noted that the shutdown issue does not occur as much when she is using a gentler cycle than the heavy duty/fast cycles
 

ClassicMachines
Posted

Thanks for the useful input.  Today I used a kill a watt to measure amps..  At spin startup it's about 9.5 amps then drops to a consistent +- 7.7 amps for the duration of the spin.  This is at any position on the dial that is a spin mode.  My wife has advised me that it has,in fact, stopped (overheated) at the spin position right after the initial wash agitation.  I've had the drum out several times and there are no objects or clothing between the tub and drum.  One thing that I noticed is that the drum does not turn by hand when the machine is off.  Is it supposed to turn by hand when off?  All tests today were run with no clothes/no water.  My wife also noted that the shutdown issue does not occur as much when she is using a gentler cycle than the heavy duty/fast cycles

ClassicMachines
Posted

Checked red capacitor line from cap to motor connector.  It has same resistance (.9) as a few other wires in the loom.  I also checked a piece of 14 GA stranded wire just cut from a roll.  It has the same resistance.  Checked all wires to their connections.  No visible issues.  The only way that the tub turns by hand when off is if large tub nut is loosened, but it tightens up on its own with normal tub rotation.  I can turn transmission shaft by hand with just some gear and oil resistance when the agitator is off.  Amp draw with "loose tub nut" is the same as noted above.

ClassicMachines
Posted

One trick I discovered today while running through a load of clothes is that when it starts its "weak" spin (it was a normal sized load on fast/fast setting) if I quickly lift the lid up out of the lid switch and put it back down immediately, it will ramp up the spin speed to normal and finish the spin.  Don't know why this works, but it prevents the motors thermal switch from activating.

Could the brake be partially on causing a drag and preventing me from being able to turn the tub by hand when the machine is off. ? It has the standard yellow spring that my previous brake assembly had.

Posted

When you turn the transmission one way, it agitates. When you turn it the other way, brakes release and tub turns.

To see if the brakes are seizing up, take the transmission out and turn the brake cam counter clockwise. That releases the brakes. The drum should start turning.

You can take the brakes apart. Take the yellow spring out by squeezing and pulling it out and then see if brakes have movement. Don't lose the end caps on the spring.

ClassicMachines
Posted

Thank you.  Will do so tomorrow.  Hopefully I'll find something that's not right and will be able to fix it for good.  With all the new parts it should last for another 20 years (or 4 lifetimes of today's washers)!

I'll post the outcome of tomorrow's work.

Posted

@ClassicMachines I suspect you might have a problem with the speed control switch - I've seen this switches point contacts weld closed and try to energize both slow and high speed windings at the same time.

Posted

I'm thinking about the lid switch and the timer I think your cams on the timer are loose and losing contact or the contacts in the timer are corroded or burned.. I had an older timer I had to drill a hole and put a screw into it to tighten it up.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Just wanted to dilute your problem description so it's easier to read:

- Washer runs fine with just water, but stops with a medium size load of clothes.

final spin starts, but sounds "weak". About 2 seconds later the motor stops. 

After turning off the machine for about 15 minutes I can start it again to finish the spin cycle. 
If I don't shut off the machine when it stops on it's own, the timer keeps advancing as normal, but no actual spin.

- new timer
- new motor

- new clutch 
- new capacitor  

- new basket drive with brake 

- new transmission 
- new water pump 

 

Edited by igloo
Posted (edited)

I still say red capacitor wire. You didn't do a good enough test on it. If it has a few strands broken inside the insulation, which is what happens on these models, or poor contact inside the harness connector, it will give you a weak spin or no spin.  Last one I did, I had to slide the red wire out of the motor harness connector, cut off the bad part and put on a new spade connector. The old one was burned and strands were broken inside the insulation at the motor connector. This caused it to work only sometimes depending on how the wire was positioned. When I moved the wire one way, it got better connection inside the insulation. When I moved it the other way, connection was in interrupted. There were some burn marks on the wire end inside the connector. That's what happens when the wire is too thin for the load. It heats up and can't handle higher amps.

Edited by igloo

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