Old (1970s) GE stove J487004HT - service manual?

[Perel]

I'm trying to find the service manual for my old, 1970s GE stove, model J487004HT. If it's on the Xdrive, I missed it - is this something you could request from GE? Unsurprisingly, they won't even let me BUY the service manual, only the "fix it yourself" guide RC sells that isn't detailed enough.

Most of all, I need a circuit diagram; more detailed dissassembly instructions would be helpful too. I'm trying to troubleshoot a nonfunctional self clean, hence the diagram. Also, I can't quite figure out how to get the rangetop off to properly clean out under the drip pans - on this model, it's not supposed to tilt up for cleaning, but I need to unbolt it due to a lot of old nasty crud I can't really get out from just the burner holes.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

I wouldn't have anything for this vintage.  Have you tried calling GE directly?  I've gotten documentation from them for 70's appliances as recently as a couple years ago.  It was only about $11.

[Perel]

Yep. They won't let me have them since I'm not an "authorized technician". I have no objection to paying for them, they just won't let me. They did point me towards the generic GE DIY service manual ( same one as http://www.repairclinic.com/0081.asp?RccPartID=311971&Acc=1 )

 but I already ordered that from RC and it's not specific enough. I would like to have the real service manual, if perhaps there was a way I could order that through you or something.. or do I just need to keep calling back until I get a rep who doesn't care that I'm not "authorized"?

Is there a generic troubleshooting guide for range timers out there? That's the part that I'm the most confused about.

Also, in general on these old ranges, how do you get the cooktop off? This model doesn't have the tilt-up rangetop, and there's gunk that I can't really get to from the holes that the drip pans go into.

Yeah, I know, it's an awful lot of effort to put into something this old, but it's a 40" and there aren't many options for 40" ranges out there / I don't want to redo all my cabinets for a different size right now.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

I think what you're dealing with is a syndrome known as "Big Corporate Stupiditis."  I've been on several jobs on older GE/Hotpoint appliances where the tech sheet was missing.  In all cases, I instructed the customer to contact GE and request a replacement of the missing tech sheet.  Never been a problem.  Sounds like you may have gotten one of their Affirmative Action hirees.  

I think it all depends on the specific person you talk to.  Try it again.  If they still give you static, ask for a supervisor and make sure they understand that you're only asking for the tech sheet/wiring diagram that originally came with the appliance, not the service manual. Say it several times and talk slowly.  Use small words with no more than two syllables.  Keep sentences short.  Rinse, lather, repeat.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=18851]Perel[/user] wrote:

Is there a generic troubleshooting guide for range timers out there? That's the part that I'm the most confused about.

Also, in general on these old ranges, how do you get the cooktop off? This model doesn't have the tilt-up rangetop, and there's gunk that I can't really get to from the holes that the drip pans go into.

The only generality on timers is knowing where the power is supplied.  Usually, this is to the transformer.  For the rest of the pinouts, you need the schematic.

Similarly, there's no general procedure for removing the cooktop.  It varies by model.  I tried to get a diagram of your range but the model number you gave doesn't pull up in the database.  Are you sure you gave the full and complete model number?

[Perel]

I'm pretty sure about the model number. Even cleaned the nameplate off with oven cleaner to be sure.. under a bright light from an angle, I can see that the stamping on the T at the end of the number is kinda light at the top - perhaps it's actually an I with an oddly placed scratch making it look like a T?

Does "J487004HI" come up any better? Both 'HI' and 'HT' work fine on RepairClinic, so I assume it's not searching on the full model number. Neither work on the GE Parts and Accessories website.

I am certain about all of the model number except for the last digit, about which you have given this grasshopper newfound doubts.

I think the problem with GE may have been that I wasn't specific enough about wanting just the tech sheet. If that's all I can get, fine, I'll call them on Monday and push for a tech sheet. I'd still like to get the full service manual if I can, but if that's not possible (or out of print entirely) the tech sheet is the most important part.

(I have the full service manuals filed for every major appliance/system I've actually purchased - being able to get one is a consideration for me - and have been tracking down the rest just in case. The manuals for most of my newer stuff were on the Xdrive just fine, and the two oldest appliances are so simple as to barely need one.)

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=18851]Perel[/user] wrote:

Does "J487004HI" come up any better? Both 'HI' and 'HT' work fine on RepairClinic, so I assume it's not searching on the full model number. Neither work on the GE Parts and Accessories website.

No, I even tried J4870* but to no avail.  This is typical when the manufacturer has orphaned a product and is no longer making parts for it, no need to continue carrying it in the parts database.

[Perel]

I figured that was probably it. I was actually surprised at how many parts WERE still available. RepairClinic even still has the front burner thermostat, which surprised me.

The clock transformer was reading 0V terminal to terminal. The top pole of the double-pole relay read 0V to neutral, and the bottom pole read 120V to neutral. I traced out the wires that should have been always hot on the dead pole; one went to an accessory outlet (which doesn't work) and the other to the fusebox under the top left burner. Whoops. The fuse was blown. I'll get a replacement tomorrow and see if that makes the clock work..

I also noticed that one of the poles on the relay wasn't making solid contact and bent the arm very slightly to make it touch completely instead of halfway in the 'closed' position. Don't know if that was part of the problem or not, but it clearly wasn't what the relay was supposed to be doing.. looks like the contact points were starting to wear down.

[Perel]

That was it! I feel kinda silly now.. just needed a fuse. Now the clock (and self clean) works fine.

I also replaced the whole light assembly with a new ballast and T8 bulb.. works great now.

All it's really missing now is a few knobs from the clock. Any idea where I might be able to get a few extra knobs? Doesn't seem to be an individual part.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

[user=18851]Perel[/user] wrote:

That was it! I feel kinda silly now.. just needed a fuse.

Why silly?  You found the problem, you should feel good!  Most things are simple once you know the answer; find that answer can be tricky.

I don't know how they do things in your town, but here in rural New Hampster, the town maintains a stump dump where we can bring old white goods, scrap metal, tree stumps, etc, where they'll eventually be scrapped and disposed of.  Periodically, I like to go scavenging among the white goods and see what I can find.  I've found some classic all-metal knobs like you used to find on 50's-era appliances.  Maybe you have a similar opportunity where you live.

[mastertech011]

I have a vintage Frigidaire Flair Custom Imperial out in the garage Im going to fully restore. It is only missing part of one knob and it is a true work of art with a slide out drawer with 4 electric burners, double ovens on top with lift up glass doors, built in cabinets below which can be removed to make a built in unit in your current cabinetry, lots of nice features.

I wouldnt attempt it at all except there seems to be a lot of people who own these and they have thier own website for it with lots of tips and parts for sale. I see them regularly on Ebay too.

I wish our city dump would recycle like that, but on the other hand, you usually only have to set out an appliance to the curb and some salvager will pick it up to repair and resell or strip for parts. In this small town not much good stuff makes it to the dump unless you take it there personally.

[Perel]

Hmm. Well, now the self-clean works.. but the safety features don't. I didn't override any of them, and don't see any disconnected wires.

The latch will slide back and forth, the latch release solenoid works, but the clean will still engage with the door unlocked, even open. And even though the self-clean didn't work until I got the clock working again, it doesn't seem to care what the timer is set to. Clean runs as long as the selector dial is set to clean, and doesn't seem to have a timer shutoff like it's supposed to. Perhaps this is operator error, but I've turned the timer dial marked "clean" all around and the clean mode stays engaged.

Interestingly, the original light fixture turned out to be one of those very old manual-start flourescents. The new rapid-start electronic ballast and T8 bulb I put in work MUCH better.. though I've got to get an appropriate switch. The original switch was for manual start and isn't usable for a modern ballast. Fortunately, it's a standard size hole, so I can easily get a switch. (Right now it's hard wired in to stay on all the time.)

[Perel]

Just called GE, twice in case the first person was wrong.. they do not have ANYTHING for this model anymore, not even the Use & Care Manual or tech sheet. Oh well..