GE Refrigerator (ZIS360NMA)

[shmonkey]

Our ~5 yr old GE ZIS360NM (side-by-side) is freezing food and liquid on the fresh food side and temperature is all over the place, but never higher than about 38 F.

A few years ago whilst it was still under warranty, we had a similar problem and the solution was to replace the air damper (which also appears to have a little fan on it so I'm not sure if the problem was the fan or the damper or what.  I wasn't around when the tech replaced it so I couldn't ask those kinds of questions).

I'm also aware that there could be other issues (like a bad thermistor/thermostat) and I could use some help zero'ing in on the true culprit.  I don't want to assume it's the same problem all over again.

Some more details:

-3 days ago, we noticed our milk was getting slushy and that the temp on the fresh food side was 18F.  Temp on the freezer was -1F (all read via the LED on the fridge).

-fresh food setpoint was 32F and freezer setpoint was 2F.  Since the problem was on the fresh food side, I raise the temp setting up to 35 F hoping that would get the temp up a bit.  I waited 48 hrs before I did much more worrying.

-yesterday the problem was not better, but the temp on the fresh food side was a little bit higher (about 22F, if I remember right).  I started researching online and found this site.  Then I remembered about the damper problem we had, and - figuring we were just getting freezer air leaking into the fresh side - I decided to try raising the freezer temp setting.  The controller let me raise the freezer setpoint as high as 6F (or 7F, can't remember).

-After raising the freezer setpoint in the morning, I noticed by evening the temperature on the fresh food side was above 32F, but it still was varying between the mid 20's and as high as 38F over the course of the evening.  Freezer temp was running at 11F at the one time I remembered to write it down.

-So it seems like the fresh food side is a bit warmer after having raised the freezer setpoint, but still it seems like it is not in control. Of course with opening/closing the fridge doors, I'm not sure what is a reasonable deadband to expect for a fridge (since one normally doesn't pay attention unless one's milk is freezing).

-I have a multi-meter, but I'm not sure what parts is what parts and don't want to start poking around measuring continuities and resistances without some diagrams or pictures of where to probe or what wires to disconnect, so here I sit - a new member of these forums - and would really appreciate further guidance.

Thanks.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

  There's a service bulletin out on the damper, which may be the problem again.  Read the bulletin and check the damper.  

The service manual for your refrigerator has more detailed access and disassembly help. 

[shmonkey]

Thanks.  I'll take a look-see and let you know if there's a damper problem.

[shmonkey]

Two more questions:

1.  Is there a way to disconnect power on this fridge without having to pull the dang thing away from the wall?  I could shut off the dedicated breaker in my house's breaker box, but this seems like not as safe a way to disconnect power as unplugging.

2.  When it rains, it pours.  I've also got a problem with the ice maker.  Because of the less than ample storage in the freezer, my wife often puts stuff inside the icemaker's storage bin.  Well this practice finally caught up to us.  The rotating shaft on the ice "pusher-outer" grabbed a plastic bag of bagels and the bag got wound around the shaft.  I got the bag clean off the shaft, but last night I noticed that the icemaker was not making ice anymore.  Shaft is no longer rotating.

I switched the ice maker off/on to see if that might clear the problem, but it didn't.

Reading from the service manual I have for the refrigerator, there is apparently another service manual just for the icemaker.  It is GE publication 31-9063.  Is this something you have on Xdrive?

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Cutting the breaker is just as safe as pulling the plug... as long as you cut off the right breaker!  Either way, those are the only two ways to posilootly, absotively cut power to the refrigerator-- a necessary pre-condition to beginning work on it.

The icemaker manual is also on the Xdrive.  I'm not logged in to it right now but if you browse through the GE folder, you'll find it.  Let me know if you can't and I'll log in later on and send it to you.  Gotta go fix some broken appliances right now.  :hiking:

[shmonkey]

Sorry, Sensai, but I never actually got the link to the Xdrive sent to my email.  I didn't realize I could look up files myself because I only got the links to the two files you specifically sent to me. 

Can you please send me the link?  (btw, This shouldn't be a spam filter issue because I've recieved other emails from you with no problem)

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Dayyam, I sent that out yesterday.  I'll send you another one.

UPDATE:  re-sent the access link.  BTW, the access link doesn't come from me, it's sent directly from Xdrive.  It often is a spam issue.  Whitelist xdrive.com.

[A-1 Appliance]

 

[shmonkey]

I'm going to start a separate thread for my icemaker woes. 

Getting back to my original problem, I looked through GE service bulletin 18-03 which speaks to a fix for an apparent chronic problem with the air handler assembly located in the fresh-food compartment.  I've actually had this air-handler replaced before (a few years ago) because the dampers were stuck open.  The bulletin basically tells me to seal off any possible leak sites around the frame of the airhandler and then to check operation of the damper by turning on the express-chill function in the climate control drawer.  I haven't done the sealing work yet because this current problem is not one that has been around since my airhandler was previously replaced (so I'm not thinking that poor sealing is the cause of this latest problem).  But I did turn-on the express chill and I watched the damper flap open on activation and close on deactivation of express chill.  So I'm not sure if this is the problem.

Other stuff that is suggested in the bulletin is to:

1.  Check FF1 and FF2 thermistor resistances at the J1 connector.

2.  Check to make sure no food items in the top freezer basket that could block airlflow.  There aren't any blockages, but if airflow between the freezer and ff sides was blocked, wouldn't this prevent proper cooling in the ff side (rather than increasing the cooling effect)?

3.  Check for proper main FF damper funtion.

 

I need some help in checking items 1 and 3.  Not sure what wires to disconnect to properly measure FF1 and FF2, and I'm not sure how to test the main FF damper function.

Thanks.

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

The J1 connector they're talking about for checking the thermistors is located on the mothahboard in the back of the machine, behind a metal plate.  The J1 connector is labelled.  As for the pinout for the specific thermistors, see the excellent diagram in this article. 

And you already did item 3 when you checked the one and only supply damper in that box.

[shmonkey]

Actually the main FF damper referred to in item#3 is supposedly located at the top of the FF compartment.  I didn't check that one.  There's a photo of where this damper is located on page 8 of the refridgerator service manual (#31-9091) you shared with me.

Even though I know where it is, I'm not sure what to do when I look at it except to see if it's wide-open or something.  It is apparently well blocked by a bunch of other parts/covers, so I didn't want to do surgery yet.

I guess I'll try the thermistors first.

Do I need to disconnect J1 to check the resistances?

[shmonkey]

Oh, also my model is not referred to as an "Arctica".  It is called a "Monogram" so I'm not sure if the article is applicable to me???

There is a circuit board layout in the manual (GE #31-9091) on page 25.  I see the group of pins labelled J1.  J1 contains pins for FF1 (pin1), FF2 (pin2) and seven other pins.  What I'm wondering is where I connect the other lead of my multimeter if one lead is touching one of these pins.

Sorry for the lame question.  I just don't wanna make an improper connection and burn/short something.

[shmonkey]

Eww, nevermind.  Apparently the diagram in the article is exactly the same as the circuit board in the manual.  Thanks.

[shmonkey]

Thankfully the motherboard is in the front on my fridge.

Here's what I did:

1.  Switched off the fridge at the main breaker panel.  I have a dedicated circuit.

2.  Removed J1 connector from Motherboard (MB).

3.  Placed com (black) lead on pin 5 and ohm test (red) lead on pins 1 and 2 for FF1 and FF2 thermistors.  Initial readings were:

FF1 = 32.9 ohms

FF2 = 32.8 ohms

I'm not sure which thermistor is which.  There is an upper one and a lower one in the FF compartment.

For these measurements, I was reading the temperature from the LED indicator in the FF compartment (which was 32F) immediately after I switched power back on (right after taking resistance measurements with J1 off).

My second set of measurements were done again with power off and J1 disconnected.  Using the thermocouple on my multimeter (which I placed in the fridge after spending a few minutes playing with it to check surface temperatures - therefore the FF door had been open for several minutes while power was shutdown) I measured the temperature of the upper thermistor by sticking the thermocouple into the grille in front of it.  I left the thermocouple and multimeter in the fridge for about 5 minutes to stabilize the temp reading.  Then I opened the fridge quickly enough to read the temp, which was 45 degrees F and unplug the thermocouple from the multimeter so I could use it to take associated resistance readings which were:

FF1 = 33.4 ohms

FF2 = 33.4 ohms

These were all at 45 F.

None of these resistances correlate very well with the thermistor values given in the service manual.

Now what?

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Calibrate your ohm meter and double check the scale you're on.  Those readings are both off by three orders of magnitude, should be in the range of 10 k-ohms, that's 10,000 ohms.  More meter help .

[shmonkey]

Sorry.  I meant to add the following question to my most recent post:

I checked the calibration of my multimeter's temperature reading by sticking the thermocouple in a bucket of ice.  After about 10 minutes, the meter stablized at 35 F, so it reads about 3 degrees high.  Therefore my multimeter's reading of 45 degrees at the upper thermistor (for my 2nd set of resistance readings) could have been significantly higher than reality since I only gave the multimeter about 5 minutes to stabilize in the fridge.  Perhaps as much as 6 degrees off (maybe really 39 F at the upper  thermistor???).  Dunno.

My resistance measurements correlate to thermistor temperatures in the range from 5 degrees F to 14 degrees F per the thermistor chart though.  This makes sense in that my FF compartment IS freezing, but doesn't match up at all with my temperature reading or with the temperature reading within the FF compartment when powered-up.

 

[shmonkey]

Sorry.  My bad.  I meant to say "K Ohms" in my earlier post.  I had the meter on the 200K scale as the 20K scale was pegged.

[shmonkey]

Having a busy day with the fridge.  I removed the cover of the main air damper (the damper frame and cover underneath the plastic light shroud are made of styrofoam) and I'm experiencing simultaneous joy and frustration.

Joy:

The damper just flops around and was stuck partially open (surprise).  Apparently the little plastic key on the damper which is supposed to engage the plastic shaft of the damper motor is broken such that the damper does not move when it is told to move.

Right before I discovered the broken damper connection, I ran a diagnostic whereby I killed power to the fridge from the main breaker in my house, waited a few seconds, and then turned it back on.  Per the service manual, within 10 secs I should have seen the damper shaft rotate open and then closed.  The damper shaft didn't rotate at all (as I looked at this is when I noticed the broken key on the damper itself), but I did hear a grinding noise which sounded like the damper motor is also having some kind of gear problem.

Looks like I found the issue.

Frustration:

After I restarted power to the fridge, I noticed a distinct lack of sound emanating from the sealed system.  The fridge is down hard.  At first, the interior lights were down too, but they came back on when I did a main control reset (which is probably what I should have done instead of killing main power to the fridge).

PLEASE tell me there is some control override that is preventing the refrigeration system from coming back on right away.  As I type this, it is still off.  I can't imagine that I fried anything since I didn't touch any wires or anything when I did the damper test.  Is there something I can do to jump start my system again?

Update:  Looks like I should have been more patient.  Sealed system started up just now.  Must be some kind of time-delay to protect the compressor.  What a maroon!!!!:?

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Dayyam, son, you have been busy!  And you're not a maroon at all.  Those time delays have fooled many fine tech, including some who carry a katana and wear their hair in a pony tail.  :rooster:

But, yes, I'd say you found the problem.  Nice shootin', Hoss. 

[shmonkey]

Yes, it appears that I found the problem.  I super-glued the broken part of the damper and reattached it to the damper motor which turned out to be not broken at all.  I've already watched it go through a full cycle of temperature control without any issues - e.g.  Fridge temp a few degrees above setpoint --> damper opened up.  wait, wait, wait (about an 1.5 hrs) Fridge temp dropped a few degrees below setpoint --> damper closed. (this is what I'm calling a full cycle by my own daffynitions).

Anyway, I'm going to watch it for another day and if this fixes it, I'm going to order a new damper since the super glue is bound to fail on me sooner or later.