Advice on which split residential HVAC to buy

[Ryno]

Discovered that the coils are leaking on my split unit - both the inside (in the attic) and the outside.   Quote I got was that it would be $3025 to replace the condensing unit and evap coil OR $4525 to replace the split unit with a Goodman 13 SEER furnace/coil/condensing unit.  My existing unit is a Lennox, 10 year old, 10 SEER.  Appears better to just go ahead and replace the 10 year old unit vs. spend $3000 to fix.

My trusted HVAC guy says he does the least warrany work on the Goodman units he installs, has one himself, and installs more of them than anything else.  Says Trane & Carrier are overpriced.

What brand should I buy?  Is Goodman a good choice?  By the way - I may only be in this house a couple more years before relocating.

Thanks for any help.

[Keinokuorma]

Can't say nuttin' on any brands, but I would rather repair or replace, than leave it be for the next owner... if you have functional AC in da house, you can easily get the price of the unit back on sale... but if the buyer needs to first off do something about it, they will want more discount than that.

[dkpd1581]

Goodman is basically as good as any other unit out there.  The true difference in one unit and the other is:

1. The ease in which it can be serviced

2. The quality of the install

13 SEER is the new standard in machine efficiency imposed on the industry by the Federal government as of January 2007.  There are very few 10 SEER units left out there.  13 SEER tends to be a physically bigger unit than the 10.  Its bigger for the fact that it is one way to squeeze out more efficiency to meet the Fed's standards now.

Questions you need to ask first is will the replacement system work on R-22 refrigerant (the standard for decades).  R-22 is being phased out as a refrigerant and the cost of it will go up dramatically as time goes on so any repairs will be costly down the road. 

If the refrigerant in the new system is the R-22 replacement - R-410 - that would be a better choice.  It is the new replacement for R-22 so it will be around for the future and it is more efficient than R-22. R-410 is costly now but is expected to go down in the future.

Is this trusted HVAC guy doing it officially on the legal side or doing it on the side - privately - as a side job.  If as a side job, the price is a bit high for a condensor and coil swap on R-22 for Goodman products.  If it is as a legit above board install then it is about right (he has business expenditures that the side job guy doesn't).

If it is for R-410 then the cost is more in the ball park.  Remember R-410 units are physically bigger which means more material in building it, more money in shipping it, and installs have to be more exact than R-22 (R-410 is not a forgiving refrigerant in some respects).

Goodman is a generic Builder's grade unit (no bells, no wistles, basic, it works kind of equipment).  The other name brands offer conveniences in troubleshooting, maintenance, and repairs.  Remember if your service guy doesn't like the unit or has trouble working on it, then he is less likely to do a quality job in keeping it up.  It is a trade off.

To answer you question, you need to ask your guy some questions:

1. is the coil and condensor swap R-22 or R-410

2. is the complete change out R-22 or R-410

3. is the work "on the side" or "above board"

4. if the change out is R-410, is the access to your attic big enough to get the machine in there.  It is not at all uncommon to have to cut a larger opening requiring a contractor to do the demo and repair work to the sheet rock ceiling - more cost

Get the answer to those questions and give us a shout back and we can go from there.  Bottom line comes down to how much you want to spend.  Do you just want to "do it" or "do it right."

[Ryno]

The change out and the replacement are R-22 and my HVAC guy is a pro - been doing HVAC since early 80's and started this business here in early 90's.  He looked at my upstairs unit again - he did the original install 11 years ago - and didn't have any concerns replacing it (I assume since we were talking R-22).

I was thinking R-22 since it's possible I'll only be in the house for another 2 years.  The repair or replacement would be cheaper, the unit shouldn't need a lot of work in the first few years, and down the road the unit could be replaced when 410 is cheaper.  Just my thinking.  My likely relocation is also a reason I'm not thinking more than 13 SEER.

So, I don't want to spend more than I have to, but I want to do it right as well.

[dkpd1581]

For a change out on a condensor and a coil at $3025.00 for R-22 is pretty expensive by Atlanta standards....not sure what the standard is in your area.  Condensor change outs are very simple and the coil will only be as hard as it is to get to the air handler.

It almost sounds like he priced the change out/repair close to the replacement hoping to get the replacement.  Its not uncommon here for companies to price them so close together like that - trying to force the customer's hand into the complete change out.

Thats just my opinion and not an accusation to your guy - based on Atlanta prices and experiences.  See if he will haggle down.  Unfortunately you are asking for this at the beginning of the busy season.  Had you asked in the lean times of January to March, your odds of a better price would have most likely been better. Worth a try...if you don's ask...the answer is always no.

[Ryno]

I will get another bid or two and see what the cost difference is - thanks for the advice.  Based on your description, it sounds pretty easy.  Is this something I should consider doing myself?

[dkpd1581]

NO WAY... you will most likely not have the recovery equipment or the vacuum pump necessary to pull out the old charge according to Fed regulations or evacuate the system to the required levels. 

The professionals have the tools, training, and required certfications, to make it right.

Ask to see where exactly the leak in the condensing unit is...if it is in the coil face you are most likely out of luck for a repair.  If it is in a U-bend or on a piece of exposed copper, it could be repaired which might save you on the condensor side.

The leak in the evap coil is typically in the thin feeder tubes to the coil or the equalizer tube of the TXV, they cannot be reasonably repaired.  The same goes for the coil face. However, if the leak is just a SAE flare fitting or in an poor soldier joint, then a repair is not unreasonable.

If the replacement was Lennox OEM, I would expect the cost to be a bit spendy.  Lennox is really proud of their stuff.  Goodman, though, thats  generic Builder's grade and I wouldnt expect the cost to be that high.  But again...thats by my market standards in Atlanta and my opinion.

I am all about the HVAC making his profit.  As long as he has been doing it, his days of free or really cheap are waaay over - and rightly so.  You are not paying him for what he does but knows how to do.  But still ask around or negotiate lower with him.  You have nothing to loose and maybe some $$ to gain.

Good luck

[applianceman18007260692]

http://www.envirosafe-refrigerants.com/

this website has a stop leak product that is a huge seller in south alabama

you will have to surf around to see it ...this is the only link I have

[Brew Man]

Hey,

To me a goodman is a very poor choice.Trane on the other hand would be better. Trane is easier for the home owner to trouble shoot and doesn't make as much noise as a Goodman.I've had alot more sevice calls about the noise level with a Goodman than any other brand.The only thing about a trane is that the condensor tubing that runs along the bottom of the condensing unit,has a spot where it touches and in time rubs a hole in the tubing.Simply put some piping insulation under it and replace every so often. or bend it some. Remember though American standard is the same thing as trane and less expensive.

[Ryno]

Ok - next question.  I have some hot/cold spots in my house.  Obvious option is to install some dampers.  While researching new HVAC unit, I was told purchasing a variable speed fan would help with the hot/cold spots, because the air would run in low speed at times for longer durations which would improve overall air flow.

This doesn't make sense to me - anyone else???

[AccApp]

The new variable speed blower or ECM (electrically commutated motor) can do wonders for problem as you describe. With the blower running continuously at a very low speed air is continually mixed and even temps and humidity levels can be achieved with even moderately poorly desigend ductwork. Some balancing will still be required and you may need to seasonally readjust the registers. Can be very pricy.

[Brew Man]

Hey,

For your hot and cold spots,I would check your insulation and get up there and look at your ducking.Make sure it's installed right.Air cannot make a good 90 deg turn,if it's coming off a straight run.Most of your air will continue on down the main run.Check all the connections real good.

[the upsman cometh]

[user=1216]Brew Man[/user] wrote:

Hey,

To me a goodman is a very poor choice.Trane on the other hand would be better. Trane is easier for the home owner to trouble shoot and doesn't make as much noise as a Goodman.I've had alot more sevice calls about the noise level with a Goodman than any other brand.The only thing about a trane is that the condensor tubing that runs along the bottom of the condensing unit,has a spot where it touches and in time rubs a hole in the tubing.Simply put some piping insulation under it and replace every so often. or bend it some. Remember though American standard is the same thing as trane and less expensive.

I had a Goodman...lasted 3 1/2 years,then crapped out.I will have to agree that sucker was very noisy.It was 6 mos. out of warranty.Go figure.Got a 3 1/2 ton 14 seer comfortmaker.It is so quiet i can't even hear it unless i go over to the same side of the house.Chill ya to the bone.Great unit.I used to hear the other one inside the house:X.I'm just speaking from a consumer point of view.I know nothing about HVAC.