Kenmore washer Model #417.44072300

[jambatt]

 Sears came out  and charged them $60 bucks to tell them it was broke! Owner's wife not happy with Sears. Called them bad names. Husband installed new control board. Ran about four loads. Washer fills and starts to agitate. Stops approx 5 minutes into cycle. Will drain and spin out OK. Finally found tech sheet and put in diagnostic mode. Every thing checks out according to sheet. No error codes. Since its a new control board I'm leaning toward speed control board. Need advice!

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

The motor is a prime suspect here. Most common problem with them is the brushes wear out or break. Frikkidaire doesn't sell the brushes alone, they want you to buy the whole motor. Somewhere in these hallowed pages, Sublime Master Keinokuorma posted an excellent treatise on replacing the brushes using generics. I'll try to find it and post a link.

[hvacdrd]

Here is the link from Keinokuorma re: motor brushes but it looks like the washer in question uses the newer style a/c motor. Here is a service manual for the tumble action washer with electronic controls.

[jambatt]

Thanks hvacdrd. Too many hands have been in this one before me. Determined to figure it out though.

[jambatt]

Yo O Fermented One. Did you get the tech sheet $hit I sent? Been wrasslin the bear all day. Ohmed out every wire in the harness so bad wire is eliminated. Ran Membrane Keypad Test and On Line Test Sequence and came up with zilch for Fault Code errors. Still starts at 42 min in Normal Cycle , fills and tumbles down to 36 min and refuses to advance any further. Put in Drain/Spin cycle and it drains and spins out like a champ. Gonna take a couple more voltage readings at the control board and then probably do the unthinkable and play part change monkey. Thinkin' Speed control board since owner just replaced main control board. If you got any better ideas I'm sure listenin'.

[jambatt]

OBTW Checked resistance between pins1 and2,2 and 3, and 3 and 1 of six pin plug on speed control harness per tech sheet and got the 2.6 ohms called for, so I guess that rules out the motor.

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Got your tech sheet and uploaded it so other techs could look at it-- see the attachment.

This is a weird one. Did you say that the motor is losing voltage when the washer quits tumbling?

attachment-link.html

[hvacdrd]

Check this out - see page 9 - your speed controller is a 134149200

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

He shoots, he scores! Nice one, Hvacdrd!

[hvacdrd]

...and an older service bulletin on the same symptom also page 9...who would've thunk?

[Moostafa]

Apparently just you!  :touched:

[jambatt]

Thanks again hvacdrd. I was running out of options before ordering speed control board. You would have thought the Sears tech would have known about this issue. Hope RCC has the right board. This one has had me scratching my head and my @ss at the same time. None of the tech sheet procedures showed any thing out of the ordinary. 

[jambatt]

:yikes:hvacdrd Help...........Frigidaire bulletin says replace with p/n 134306000 but RCC says manufacturer has replaced it with p/n 134149200. This p/n is listed on the service bulletin as one to replace. Need advice before I drop any coins on someone. 

[jambatt]

Belay that last post! Misread the p/n.:oops: These old eyes ain't what they used to be, along with some other parts.

[BrntToast]

the speed boards have a date stamp, doing the friggy warrany i learnt if the machine does weird things read the tag, if its 2003 or 2004 its gonna need that board 

in 2004 i was stocking 3 of them cause some days i'd use them all 

but usually they will fill/drain at the same time near one of the final rinses not get stuck in wash, but that does happen with them too

 

[jambatt]

:help:OK gang, the demon has not been exorcised!

History: Washer does not advance through the cycles. Owner installed new control board and said washer ran 4 to 6 loads before stalling out again. Called me in after Sears tech blew them off and here we are. Just installed new speed control board and machine filled with water and tumbled down to 26 min, drained and stalled out before rinse cycle began.:blech: Further checking found owner had plumbed Hot and Cold in reverse. Thought maybe rinse fill temp was the problem. Cleared and restarted on Normal cycle again and it counted down to 37 min and stalled out just like before. Checked voltage according to flow chart and came up with 23 volts.(See pages 11,47, and 50 of service manual PDF in hvacdrd's first post) Flow chart indicates defective control board. Installed original control board and got same 23 volt reading. Owner purchased new control board from Sears. Owner wants to know if old speed control board could have taken out his new control board or could it have been a defective board. Anyone got an answer for me or even a SWAG?   Does anyone concur with my diagnosis (defective control board) based on the info given or is more info and troubleshooting needed?

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

The junk voltage of 23 vac sets off the "floating neutral" alarm in my head. There has to be a bad neutral connection in that circuit. I'd use a magnifying glass and a strong flashlight to examine the ends of the wire harness-- could be a rusted, broken or recessed pin connector.

[BrntToast]

have a good look at the pins entering the plugs for the motor, have seen several that were loose and or broken, i dont really change many of those control boards, doubt you have 2 bad ones

look for loose plugs on timer and that the bottom of the timer where plug clips in isn't smashed, a real bad off balance load can smash in the bottom of the timer

again, read date code on speed board incase you somehow got stuck with a very old one all from 2003 and 2004 are bad

prvt msg back if you wish

 

[jambatt]

Todays history: Eyeballed every pin and pin connector on both control board and speed control board and motor. Zilch... Checked amp draw on motor. 2.1 amps at top spin speed. Less than 2 amps in tumble. Ran membrane keypad test and on line test sequence again. Passed with flying colors. No fault codes appeared. Started machine in Normal, Heavy wash, and Quick wash, Hand wash, and Rinse/spin.

Display readings in each cycle: Started Stopped

Minutes

Normal wash   43 32  

Heavy Soil 58 52

Quick wash   36 30

Hand wash 30 25

Drain/Spin  15 4 

Each cycle ran for 6 minutes and stalled out and failed  to advance any further. Drain/spin cycle stalled at four minutes. Tub stopped spinning but pump kept running. Waited but would not count down any further nor did pump shut off. Had to Stop/Clear before pump would stop running. :yikes:This damn thing is possessed.

Old Speed control board manufactured in '04. New Manufactured in '07.(Toast)

Short of 5 gal of gas and a match, anyone got any further suggestions?

[jambatt]

Hallelujah!! The Demon is finally exorcised....

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

Don't keep us in suspense-- what'd you find?

[BrntToast]

what did the trick?

 

[Samurai Appliance Repair Man]

He doesn't want to tell us. :knifehead::grunt:

[jambatt]

You ain't gonna believe this one! Stumbled across the solution by SDAL method(Sheer Dumb A$$ Luck). Drain hose is held in place by a cable tie attached to the floor of the cabinet. Wiring harness also passes through same cable tie and is taped to the hose in several places. Hose moves =Harness moves. Now the little old control board and speed control board are sitting there resting; with their motors idling and their foot on the brake, in the Timer Advance On mode 110v across J11 8.1(BLK) and J6 C7.7(YEL/BLK) just waiting for a signal from the Keypad to drop the hammer and burn rubber. Keypad gets instructions from yours truly for Cycle, Temp,Spin Speed Options, Etc.  and then the ominous Start. Well that's the signal the Control Boards have been waiting for. No longer at idle with their foot on the brake, the  timer advances to the first stage called for in the Normal wash table cycle ie. FILL THEN TUMBLE. As FILL begins, Timer Advance is turned Off(voltage now reads 24v). Sneaky little 24v transformer somewhere in the mix.  First FILL THEN TUMBLE takes approx. 6 minutes(see WASH CYCLE TABLE), then continues on with the second FILL THEN TUMBLE sequence. Guess this FILL is to check water level and add some if needed. At the end of this 6 minute sequence the Magic 110v appears momentarily and Timer Advance turns On,next stage DRAIN & IMPULSE begins, voltage returns to 24v, and Timer  Advance turns OFF. When DRAIN AND IMPULSE cycle is completed, the Magic 110v is supposed to show up and turn the Timer Advance back ON  so it can  move on to the next stage, FILL THEN TUMBLE. Here is where the Magic 110v becomes a NO SHOW. Washer stalls out and Mama ain't happy cause the clothes are piling up. Now, no Fault Codes reared their ugly heads and all the previous diagnostics didn't raise any either. Luckily I had left the old trusty multimeter hooked up to the control board during all this and noticed that the Magic 110v seemed to go AWOL after each DRAIN & IMPULSE sequence. Visual inspection of all the the connectors had shown nothing out of the ordinary ie. no burned or broken or missalligned pins. Drats, foiled again. But oh contrare. Something was amiss in the 10 pin connector on the speed control board as the Magic 110v would reappear if  moved ever so slightly only to disappear when you let it go. Further Sleuthing found that the Drain Hose had movement in it, especially at the end of the Drain cycle when the Magic 110v was scheduled to appear and turn the Timer Advance ON!! Hose moves, harness moves, 10 pin connector moves thus interrupting the power flow. Wah La. Electronic gizmos don't seem to like to have their power interrupted, especially at a time when they have something scheduled like turning on the Timer Advance. They develop amnesia and stall out the whole damn show making everyone's life miserable. Made some minor adjustments to the 10 pin connector and seperated and isolated the harness from the hose. Life is Good again.  And that's the Saga of The Demon that posessed that POS washer.

Moral of the story: Never under estimate the power of the info contained in those invaluable Tech Sheets. Would not have thought of monitoring the meter throughout the whole wash cycle had it not said to watch for the Magic 110v to appear after at least 6 min of the cycle had elapsed.

Sorry it took so long to reply but have been busy this evening. Kick ass Blues band showed up for friends wedding party. Hard to turn down free beer and good music. Gonna feel like $hit tomorrow but at least I ain't got to get up and wrassle the Demon.