ComfortMaker Model # G-0 400050-08M Blower

[martyeric]

The other day turned on our AC for the first time this year.  Everything was fine for about 1 minute and then the blower stopped. 

The outside unit continued to run.  No circuit breakers were tripped. Took off filter cover and pressed safety switch and could hear inside coolant circulating, it would stop when I deactivated the switch and then restart when I pressed it in again, so I believe the safety switch is okay. :?

Checked the blower (the best I can, very little room in unit, don't know how I would get blower out although it is recommended every 3 years) the blower spins freely and there is no play in the bearings.  Have not been able to get direct power to check it out further.  Turned off breakers to inside unit.  Removed control panel and unplugged blower.  Unplugged cable to safety switch from main power. Control panel has screw terminals where outside AC attach and thermostat leads attach.  Inside panel is a transformer and a coil.  Now I am stumped.  :?

Don't know what to test next or how.  Don't think I'm over my head yet, but I'm up to my neck and sometimes treading.  I believe it is a simple problem.  It is a 23 y.o. unit, and I'm afraid most repairman will just want to replace system.  That's not really an option.  Can someone take my hand and lead me? 

Befuddled (and soon to be very sweaty)

[Cactus Bob]

mistake sorry . internet messed up today

[Cactus Bob]

here are things you can do if you have a volt meter  , but first i need to know who makes your unit .comfortmaker did not make your unit , someone else did and comfortmaker rebadged it .......so i will need photos of the airhandler with the blower cover removed and while your at it one of the outside unit ( just one ,i want to see who makes that , sometimes there a matched set )  . i should be able to tell from photos ,i work on enough of them , and have seen just about every unit made

[martyeric]

These are photos from my cameraphone.  Sorry its the only digital I have in the house.  I have a voltmeter and I know how to use it.:shock:

By the way.  I disconnected the cables.

 

[martyeric]

Here is one of the entire unit.

[martyeric]

And the outside unit. (Hey these turned out better than I expected, since I took it at night

[dkpd1581]

Just a thought ... when you replace the motor also get a new wheel.  In doing so you will 1. have a clean wheel which will move correct amount of air properly 2. have a wheel that is more likely to be correctly balanced 3. reduce the risk of damage that using the old one can produce. 

New motors have been known start up with more torque than the old one and that can strip the hub from the wheel - that connection is only a press fit connection.  You may experience unexplained squealing noises, shaft damage, blower wheel damage/seperation, and damage to the new motor in the event that the wheel does go bad.

When you do get it up and running, be sure to clear around the condensing unit, high grass and dirty coils will obstruct the air flow and can cause you problems that will most certainly cost more than your motor problem now.

Best of luck.

[Cactus Bob]

OK GOOD .  i dont think you have a bad motor its not likely . you should start by removeing that control board and looking on its backside for a burned solder joint  .this is common with this control  . if all good there or you might try this first . put it back together (including the covers) and power it up have someone else switch the fan from auto to on and wait ( right at the unit) as much as 15 seconds ....do you hear anything ? , a click , ANYTHING ..... ANOTHER , THING ( I KEEP THINKING OF OTHER THINGS TO TRY ) did you try your heat ? does the blower come on after the burners get hot ? (like normal)

[martyeric]

See next post!

I haven't specifically checked for bad solder joints, but I did take the control panel off and check the wires.  They all looked fine.  Nothing was obviously wrong on the inside, but like I said I didn't check the solder joints.  Would they be on the back of the terminals that are on the outside of the control panel?  Most of the connections on the inside to the coil and transformer are push-on terminals or the wires and connected with twist-on wire nuts.

Prior to disconnecting the wiring we did switch the Fan to ON rather than AUTO and nothing happened.  Don't think we waited 15 seconds though.  Don't remember hearing a click.  Thermostat is directly across a small hallway from the inside unit.  We never tried the furnace, the temperature here is currently 92 and rising, expected Hi 97.  I'm not sure I can get the thermostat high enough to trip on!  And it's not a dry heat!

Like I wrote in my first post, with everything connected and the AC on we could hear the coolant circulating in the inside unit and it would stop when the panel safety switch was released.  Don't know if that means anything.

Hot in Carolina.

[martyeric]

OKAY NEW INFO:  First, no solder joints, everything is either crimp, push-pull or wire nuts.  Reattached all the cables to try your tests.  There is a click when you switch the fan to on; tried to operate the furnace, no problem, fan came on.  So I decided to try the air.  Low and behold, the A/C came on  and ran just long enough for us to get the windows down, the doors closed and for me to finish reassembling the unit, clean up and put away my tools, then the fan stopped.  Turned unit off.  Went to get some take out, about 30 mins later turned unit on again (meaning to cool).  Fan ran for 3 mins and stopped.  Please tells me this solves the mystery:?

Hopeful but still hot in Carolina.

P.S.  How often can I turn it on till it stops, or is that a bad idea?

[Cactus Bob]

EVERTHING I SAID HAS A REASON ,  checking the solder joints : on the control board there is a  relay , the relay controls the motor, this relay has a problem when it goes bad it melts the solder joints on thed backside of the board .......... teasing the heat : when you run nthe heat you turn on the blower at a lower speed  this checks the blower berrings and the run cap , it also checks the common wire to the motor and the 115v to the board and tells us a lot about the system as a unit ........ one more qustion . was there water anywhere under the blower ? ( before you ask why )  sometimes water will come down the flue from rain and puddle in the blower houseing and when it turns on it splashes around -gets in the motor and BAM the motor is done ............... so in the end . you need to  check the board solder ( on back ) .......... run the heat ( i dont care how but is needs to happen ) ...... on to the NO CLICK when switching to fan-on  . i need a close up photo of the control board .......and we will go on    BTW: you furnance was made by ICP (inter city products )........... i just looked again at the sorts clear photo of the board , i dont see a blower relay on that board , so do you have another box somewhere with a tarnsformer on it ? ( i just might  just need a clearer photo to see it)

[martyeric]

See post I posted at 9:26 (I guess that's 6:26 your time?) while you were posting yours at 9:28 (6:28)

[Cactus Bob]

ok now ere getting somewhere ; you have a  one: a bad run capacator ( follow wires from blower moror to a can like thing .....or..... a bad realy the part that clicks when you switch from auto to run  ....... or  .....the motor ( not likely )

[martyeric]

Okay, behind the terminals/control panel is a transformer (pretty hot when I took the control panel off), and probably the blower relay (it has five terminals, one beige wire connected to remote ac terminal, one brown wire connected to the thermostat terminal, one black wire that goes to the blower and one black wire that is wire nutted to the power source black wire, and one 18 gauge black wire that runs above the furnace with 3 other 18 ga. wires to this cylinder screwed to the outside of the air flow to the attic with Honeywell stamped on the outside:

[Cactus Bob]

at the blower relay  remove the wire from the relay that goes to the blower motor ( black) and comnnect to the black wire that is wire nutted to the power . ...... to be safe remove the other wire to the relay from above the burners and tape off ........ turn on power , blower should run all the time till you kill power ...... try it . get back to me

[martyeric]

Okay.  Did as you said.  Blower ran for 10 minutes before I shut off power.

[Cactus Bob]

REPLACE RELAY

[martyeric]

That's the black box I removed the three wires from right?

Is it okay to circumvent relay for the night?

[Cactus Bob]

THATS THE ONE ......  NO PROBLEM TO JUMP OUT , STAY COOL

[martyeric]

:X  Stupid amateur mistake.  A/C ran fine with blower relay jumped for two nights.  Installed new blower relay today.  Attached wires according to diagram created shortly after we isolated blower relay.  Switch clicked, A/C began circulating, but No Blower.  Thought I must have reversed the power and the blower wires on the diagram.  Switched blower and power wires.  Reapplied power.  Switch clicked, nothing else.  Realized I had not reattached blower to control panel.  Plugged blower back into control panel, switched power wires  and blower wires on relay back to original terminals.  Blower works, outside A/C unit does not.

Essentially, what happens (burns up) if you attach the power to the wrong side of the relay?

Rolling Sweat in Record Heat,

Husband in deep do-do in Carolina

[dkpd1581]

Check to see if you didnt send high voltage to the outdoor contactor and fry the 24VAC contactor coil or fry the control wiring between the indoor and outdoor unit.

Go to the outdoor unit and undh the contactor in.  If it runs then its most likely the coil of connecting wiring.  With a call for cooling check for 24 VAC to the conactor coil.  If its there and nothing happens, check for continuity through the windings of the coil...if none then change the contactor.

[martyeric]

Okay, let's break in down a little more basic. 

"Go to the outdoor unit and undh the contactor in." 

I go to the outdoor unit and "push?" the contactor in?  Where do I find the contactor and what will I push in?  Will it be obvious? Do I need to take the outside unit's cover off?  Any need to check the buss fuses going to the outside unit?

[martyeric]

CURRENT STATUS UPDATE

Removed buss fuses to outside unit.  Removed cover to outside unit.  Found contactor you were referring to, pushed and released.  Put fuses back and both lines tested positive for voltage on connection inside unit.  Went back inside house, hooked everything back up and turned unit to cool.  Blower came on and outside unit came on, cool air is coming out.  Don't know what I did.  Haven't put anything away yet, must wait til house gets below 80 before touching anything.

Getting Cooler and Marriage Improving in Carolina

[Cactus Bob]

HI , HAPPY TO SEE YOU GOT IT FIXED .  you problem with the outside unit was and might still be a loose 24v wire somewhere around the blower relay  . looks like your ok . sorry i did not get a chance to help you today , we have had a rough day here in arizona its around 100 today and  BUSY   ..... i see you are haveing a little heat wave too ...... so good luck any problems just post . BOB

[martyeric]

Twenty-four hours and all is well.  Thanks for all your help Bob.  You've been a marriage and a lifesaver.  (Actually my wife took it all pretty well, even when I was afraid I had blown something up.)  Our heat wave is alot more bearable today.

Keep up the good work.

Cool in Carolina

Marty