Service Company Ethics

[Guest]

This question is mainly for the HVAC pros who visit this forum because it involves professional ethics:

I had a problem with my HVAC system (2004 Ruud Achiever 90+). 

It would start and stop, start and stop.  I read that I should check and clean the flame sensor.  On our unit, the flame sensor had a screw on one side and a rivet on the other.  I would've had to grind off the rivet to get it out, and it was, of course, on the weekend. 

I didn't want to chance breaking it with no chance of gettig a part for two days, so I used long clamps and a new plastic scrubbing pad to clean it as best I could with the sensor in the unit.  It worked well for a couple of weeks.  It warmed the house quite a bit, but never got all the way to WARM unless we set the thermostat for about 80F. 

My wife called a service company one day while I was at work.  They sent out a tech to fix the system.  On their website, for $89, they offer a "Winter Precision Tuneup", which includes:

• Heating
  
• Check thermostat calibration
  
• Clean and adjust burner assembly
  
• Clean ignition assembly
  
• Check combustion air
  
• Test starting capabilities
  
• Examine heat exchanger for damage and corrosion
  
• Monitor flue draft
  
• Test safety controls
  
• Inspect gas piping
  
• Clean and/or replace standard air filters
  
• Measure for correct air flow
  
• Tighten electrical connections
  
• Measure volts and amps
  
• Lubricate all moving parts
  
• Clean condensate drains
  
• Measure temperature difference between supply air and return air
  
• Apply protective coating
  
• Adjust gas pressure
  
• Adjust pilot
  
• Monitor heating cycle
  
• In place, clean and adjustment of blower components
  
• Examine installation quality
  
• Examine equipment condition area, and clearances

The guy was in and out in half an hour and never went outside or upstairs, so about half the things on that list, he couldn't have done.  There are several items on the list that anyone can look and see he didn't do.  The guy who installed the system was a hack who did a shoddy job, which I've never taken the time to clean up.

The bill says $89 for the service call and $66 to clean the flame sensor.  I think this is double billing, and I think it's wrong.  Shouldn't the service call for $89 include all the items in their list, or am I wrong to think so? 

I'll check back in a day or so to see what the consensus is here.  I'm also going to post this on a couple of other forums, so that I can see what other pros think of it.

Have a great day today and a better day tomorrow.  Stay safe, and may God bless.  I wish you His peace.

Dan

[RegUS_PatOff]

I'm no expert, but I don't see the Flame Sensor portion of it mentioned in the list, although I'm sure he didn't do half of those things, and you could call him on that, and either have him finish the job (although if he's as unscrupulous as he seems, he may "inadvertetnly" damage something) or get a refund of the $89.

Either way, if I were you, I'd report him to the BBB (if he's a member, probably not)

or to the Yellow Pages (but I'm thinking that's not where you found his ad)

 

 

[denrayr]

it says they clean the ignition assembly which is usually the flame sensor/spark electrode. i would ask for a refund on the cleaning portion and remember not to call them in the future.

[hvacdrd]

I agree with [user=8]denrayr[/user] that "clean ignition assembly" includes cleaning the flame sensor since sensing the flame is part of the ignition assembly.

The question is, did your wife call for a "Winter Precision Tuneup" or did she call for "no heat." Clearly two different requests. The tuneup you would likely not have gotten same day priority since they are typically used as fill in work. The $89 is their standard service (arrival)charge which should include travel time to your home and time for diagnostics. Repairs past that point would be time & material. Based on the charge of $66.00 to clean the flame sensor it is likely they utilize a flat rate system.

Was this done during overtime (after 5pm or weekend)?

Just because they offer a $89.00 tuneup doesn't mean you get the "Winter Precision Tuneup" when you pay an $89.00 service charge. Especially in the heart of heating season. Most tuneup specials are designed to keep the contractor busy in the fall when work slows down after A/C season and prior to the heating season. It is fill in type of work to keep their techs employed during off times. Simple supply & demand stuff.

The one thing you should ask is did the tech quote the charge before completing the repair? Your wife agreed to the service charge of $89.00 by phone or else a tech would not have been sent to your home. From there it is standard for the technician to quote any and all additional charges.

[Cactus Bob]

I HATE TO SAY IT but this happens all the time here in arizona is is common a winter tuneup does not include REPAIR i get suckered into fixing stuff all the time with no extra charge . but stop and think ..... did your wife call her mother , neghbor , frend , co worker .and ask them who is good around here for heater repairs? did she call the BBB and find out if there where any problems with this co. or did she just pick someone from the phone book COLD and ask only WHEN CAN YOU GET HERE IM COLD! there is allways someone out there to take your money if you have the dumb luck to call them . just be glad that nothing else was damaged buy a STUPID tech . AND END UP WITH A NEW FURNANCE ....... ON YOU !

[jahjahbinks]

Clean ignition assembly yes you got ripped , however i still have a concern does your house heat correctly ? if so let it go , if not get hot!

[applianceman18007260692]

I would raise hell.

[dkpd1581]

When my Company comes out we have a multi-point check list that we fill out with specific details that we inspect and measure (Residential and Commercial).  We provide that sheet along with a written Invoice to the Customer every time. Call the Service Manager and ask for a written inspection report.  He obviously will not have one so then start asking the hard questions:

What did my exchanger look like - did you use a fiber optic scope, did you pull the blower motor assembly and look, or did you take the case coil off of the exchanger.  Did I have a tubular or plate exchanger

What were the readings for CO (carbon monoxide) and NO (nitrous oxide) in my flue draft, where did you penetrate the flue to measure, did you use and electronic measure or old style bulb and chemical.  Remember you have a 90%+ furnace and they use PVC for the flue.  There should be a 1/4" hole drilled in it to measure the flue gasses

What were the specific amp draws on my blower motor and inducer motor, what should they be

What specific parts were lubricated - when most items are permanently sealed bearing style

What was the specific temperature rise across my heat exchanger and what were the specific entering and exiting temperatures

What was the specific pressure in inches of water gauge ahead of my gas valve and to the manifold, what was it adjusted to for low fire and high fire

How specifically was the correct air flow determined (temp rise method, static pressure) and what was the air flow specifically.  What technical reference chart was used

What specifically is a "Protective Coating"  I have been doing this for 5 years and know of NO coating that is applied to a heating system. 

The Service Manager will not have the answers and will try to put you off citing that he does not have the paperwork to which I would say "Neither do I."  Their office should debrief tickets and enter it into their computer system for electronic retrieval.  The Service Manager should be able to pull one while you are on the phone. 

The bottom line is that none of this happened and you should raise hell until you get the inspection fee back along with the service fee charged for the cleaning.  Do not let them off the phone, do not let them call you back.  Do not speak to a dispatcher - only to the Residential Service Manager or Owner.  Be very direct and clear asking the questions that I cited above and that company should get the point that its easier to refund you your money than to answer the hard embarrassing questions.

Tune up specials are simply a way into your house for a company to find and repair something or even better generate replacement work.  This time of year companies are hurting in their residential departments and put huge pressure on Techs to make profits even to the point of being dishonest in practice.  Techs often make commissions in addition to a wage and rely on that commission check to make up the difference in paying their bills at home.  Those who do not produce get laid off and serve as an example to those still left with a job to get on the stick and generate revenue.

Do not give up and keep calling and arguing until you get your money back.

[Guest]

Thanks for your replies, folks. I see seven responses, of which six think I got ripped off and ought to raise hell.

That company just called and offered to come out and perform a tuneup for just $89, a savings of $20 off their regular $109. My wife took the call, and got mad at me when I started loudly suggesting that they'd stolen from us once and now they wanted to steal more so soon after. I could hear the dipstick who called laughing at me over the phone. I asked my wife if they really wanted to dare send a man to our home after they'd just stolen from us. She politely told the guy that it wasn't a good idea at the moment and hung up.

Now she's mad at ME. Can't win for losing, they say. Again, thanks for your input. I will be making inquiried and complaints on up the chain of command, and maybe even calling our Consumer Affairs office.